Light ROM 3/Light ROM 3 - Disc 2.iso/toaster/text/fidonet/1993/toaster1.txt

Text File | 1995-03-23 | 273KB | 7,375 lines

Message #875 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 14 Oct 93  00:22:15
From: Sandy Simpson
  To: Jason Mussetter
Subj: Display real-time running

JM>    Nice talking to you to, and I hope you learned more about me now

Nice to talk to you too.  Keep in touch!  <SS>
--- FreeMail 1.09
 * Origin: Solid Rock BBS - Agana, GU - USA [phone] (1:345/3014)

Message Command:

Message #876 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 12 Oct 93  19:22:01
From: Jochen Jaeger
  To: All
Subj: Scart plug

Hi,

does anybody know the condeser plates of a scart plug?

tnx a lot,
 jj
--- Yuppie v2.10
 * Origin: nimrod (2:246/18.26)

Message Command:

Message #877 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 14 Oct 93  20:31:17
From: Orin Palmer
  To: Gregg Mercede
Subj: Re: Toaster/PC

In a message of <10-Oct-93 09:16:44> Gregg Mercede (1:141/270) wrote:

 GM> A redesign is what I am looking for.  My point is that the PC hardware
 GM> is powerful enough to handle what the video toaster is doing.

Are you going to design it? Try calling Newtek and ask them if they are
considering a redesign to put the Toaster into a computer that is totally
unsuited for it.  You just don't get it. The Video Toaster was designed
around the Amiga and NEEDS the Amiga custom chips to do it's magic. The PC
doesn't have em or anything close to them. Not putting your computer down,
just the facts of life. Just as the PC was designed for text handling, the
Amiga was designed for video handling.

                           Orin :)
---
 * Origin: The Bear's Den (1:202/739.10)
More? [Y/n/c]
Message Command:

Message #878 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 13 Oct 93  11:37:06
From: Charles Bandla
  To: All
Subj: VT4000 upgrade woes

Did anyone else run into problems upgrading to the VT4000
board?  The 1st one NewTek sent me was defective (center freq. was out of
spec and the adjusting pot was bad) and had to be replaced.  I was shutdown
for 21 days, they said they were
very busy (a lot of returns??).
Other problems I've seen since getting the new board:
1. The transitions with the spaceship fly-by & Kiki with the wand cause the
program output picture to tear.
2. TPaint won't unload from the switcher, I've got to quit
it from within TPaint.
3. Playing LW anims from switcher causes memory
management problems.  I've been getting intermittent "out
of memory" messages trying to load TPaint or run
transitions after playing anims.  I'm using a A4000 with
10 MB (2 chip/8 fast) of memory.

More? [Y/n/c]               --- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #879 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 13 Oct 93  11:44:47
From: Sam Kanter
  To: Peter Greci
Subj: Re: TOASTER AND VIDEO MISC

>Howdy Sam, just noticed yer in NY, try sending mail to Barry Einstein here
on
>the Trade N Post as he has a Emplant.

Will do, Peter. Thanks...
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link [phone] TBBS/TIMS  (1:2603/303)

Message Command:

Message #880 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 14 Oct 93  11:32:19
From: Mark Hawes
  To: Patrick Brocci
Subj: Re: Creating Ghost-ID Log

-> -> How would I create, and effectively superimpose, one of those "gho
-> -> ID logos that stations often air in the lower righthand corner of
-> -> screen?  I just can't seem to get that good, embossed/shadow look.
->
-> PA> just mkae the center of the logo the background (transparent) col
-> PA> side (usually the left) should have a white outline of the logo w
-> PA> the other should have a dark grey outline. If the logo has featur
-> PA> the center, just do the same thing to the feature outlines.
->
-> Is this done in ToasterPaint?
-> How do I outline (in 2 colors, or even 1) complex shapes like a logo?
-> By free-hand drawing?
Try this. If you have created your logo in TPaint, save it as an RGB
file


More? [Y/n/c]               --- WM v2.04/92-0335
 * Origin: The MoonRose HQ BBS - [phone] USA (1:363/153)

Message Command:

Message #881 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 14 Oct 93  11:43:42
From: Mark Hawes
  To: Mark Hawes
Subj: Re: Creating Ghost-ID Log

-> -> -> How would I create, and effectively superimpose, one of those "
-> -> -> ID logos that stations often air in the lower righthand corner
-> -> -> screen?  I just can't seem to get that good, embossed/shadow lo
-> ->
-> -> PA> just mkae the center of the logo the background (transparent)
-> -> PA> side (usually the left) should have a white outline of the log
-> -> PA> the other should have a dark grey outline. If the logo has fea
-> -> PA> the center, just do the same thing to the feature outlines.
-> ->
-> -> Is this done in ToasterPaint?
-> -> How do I outline (in 2 colors, or even 1) complex shapes like a lo
-> -> By free-hand drawing?
-> Assuming that you have D-Paint, you can try this: If you have
created your basic logo in TPaint, save it as an RGB file. Go to
D-Paint and load the logo and cut it out as a brush. Under the brush
menu there is an edge option that will automatically outling your brush
More? [Y/n/c]               one pixel at a time in the color of your choice. Repeat the edge
procedure to increase width of outline. When satisfied with width you
cam mark the edge where you want to go from a darker shade to a lighter
shade. Use the fill tool to alter the color of that section. Save and
take back to T-Paint if necessary for further manipulation or to save
as a framestore or whatever for toaster access. Beats the heck out of
trying to outline accurately in TPaint.


--- WM v2.04/92-0335
 * Origin: The MoonRose HQ BBS - [phone] USA (1:363/153)

Message Command:

Message #882 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 14 Oct 93  11:13:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Patrick Brocci
Subj: Re: Creating Ghost-ID Log

PA> just mkae the center of the logo the background (transparent) color.
PA> One side (usually the left) should have a white outline of
PA> the logo while the other should have a dark grey outline. If the
PA> logo has features in the center, just do the same thing to the
PA> feature outlines.

-> Is this done in ToasterPaint?
-> How do I outline (in 2 colors, or even 1) complex shapes like a logo?
-> By free-hand drawing?

The easiest way to do this is with Deluxe Paint. If your original logo
is a 24bit image, you have to convert it to 16 colors using ADPro,
Imagemaster or another similar program. Then you load the logo into
DPaint (Hi=Res, Interlaced screen). Pick up the logo as a brush using
the right mouse button. Select white or light grey as the foreground
color and use the color mode (F2). Your whole logo will turn into the
More? [Y/n/c]               background color. Paste the logo on the screen. Next, select very dark
grey as your foreground color. Paste the logo a few pixels down and to
the right of the one you have previously pasted. Now select the
background color (usually black) as the foreground color and paste the
logo in the middle (horizontally and vertically) of the two previously
pasted logos. You should now have the outlined logo you need. Save the
image and, in Toaster Paint, cut it as a brush. Now place where you want
it on the screen an you are in business!
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #883 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 15 Oct 93  08:02:00
From: Vic Cole
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: gc electronics

 On 10-13-93 PAULO DE ANDRADE wrote to DAVE WELLINGTON...

PD> -> hi guys... i'm sure many of use here do our own head cleaning on
PD> our
PD> -> vcrs, so....
PD> ->
PD> -> is anyone here able to buy (or know where i can mail order) a head
PD> -> cleaning agent from GC Electronics called "TF Solvent"? it's in
PD> -> aerosol form. this is really good stuff, and our local industrial
PD> -> supplies shop has replaced it with a product they consider "better"
PD> -
PD> -> some kinda acetone based solute. anyways, if u can buy TF solvent,
PD> or
PD> -> can tell me where i can mail order some, please write back to me.
PD> -> thanks. can use the netmail gateway too, if ya want.
PD>
More? [Y/n/c]               PD> TF solvent in nothing but Freon. The advantage of freon (and the
PD> reason
PD> why all tv networks use it) is that it leaves no residues and does not
PD> attact the head components. An acetone based liquid could do serious
PD> damage to the heads.
PD>
PD> You can order TF Solvent from MCM Electronics, phone [phone]
PD> --- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
PD>  * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Why, I'm surprised at you!  Don't you know that freon is a flourocarbon?
This
is the compound which is responsible for your most recent sunburn...or is it
global warming...maybe global cooling?  Well, the politicians tell us that
it's
bad, and they never lie, so it must be bad stuff, right?

Vic---
* OFFLINE 1.56
* LAKOTA v1.1
--- FreeMail 1.09
 * Origin: Solid Rock BBS - Agana, GU - USA [phone] (1:345/3014)
More? [Y/n/c]
Message Command:

Message #884 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 15 Oct 93  21:26:11
From: Rich Koster
  To: All
Subj: New Fidonet Address

Hi, All!

I am once again on Fidonet through a point setup.  If anyone wants to send
me a private netmail message to me, please do it through this new electronic
address of 1:390/5.10 instead of my old Amiga GateWay BBS address.  I will
still be receiving Usenet netmail the same as before, through Amiga GateWay.

-Rich Koster

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #885 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 15 Oct 93  18:54:49
From: Jim Mixon
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: OK Ill bite... screamer q

On Sunday October 10 1993, Paulo De Andrade said to Mike Nielsen:
-> Well, that is not how I understood the publicity.  For that price you
-> get four parallel processors.

 PDA> That's what I underastood, too. But a reputable Toaster user from BIX
 PDA> asked the NewTek reps at a trade show and they told him that the basic
 PDA> $9,995 is for a single-processor unit.

->I am almost positive that you are wrong about only a single processor
->for $9995.

 PDA> I sincerely hope I am, but things indicate otherwise. Anyway, we'll
know
 PDA> for sure when they release the Screamer to the public.

Hi Paulo,
More? [Y/n/c]                  I think your right about the one processor , from what I have heard.....
but your also right about seeing what finally gets released.....

cya

Jim


--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, ExEd 1.02
 * Origin: Toaster Universe BBS [phone] 16.8K Dual Standard (1:135/355)

Message Command:

Message #886 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 14 Oct 93  12:57:02
From: Sam Kanter
  To: Peter Greci
Subj: Re: SAY IT!

>Personally I could care less about Rush Limbaugh or Politics in genereal.
IMHO
>ALL Politicians are worth Hanging.

Rush Limbaugh is not a politician -- he's a glorified disk jockey.

My point was that although we are excited about seeing the Toaster on
television, we should keep in perspective what the -message- is.  The
-medium- (as McCluhan would say) is a terrific one, though.

For example, Hitler hired some great artists in film, graphic arts, and
music to promote his murderous schemes.  He probably would have used the
Toaster were he around today.  Let's be wary of what these new tools are
being used for...
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link [phone] TBBS/TIMS  (1:2603/303)
More? [Y/n/c]
Message Command:

Message #887 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 14 Oct 93  13:08:25
From: Sam Kanter
  To: Mark Hawes
Subj: Re: TOASTER NEWS...

>Just color me p*ssed.

I think, in general the picture is becoming quite clear:

Newtek, Apple, IBM, and every other hardware and sofware company are
BUSINESSES and CORPORATIONS who are out to make the biggest profit possible,
not to develop the creative and artistic careers of their users.
Making upgradable products is NOT in their self-interest.  Making us buy NEW
hardware as often as possible IS.

When a company like Newtek has a great product like the Toaster, without any
real competition, they have more power to exploit this fact.

This is capitalism, like it or not. I'm pissed too, but no one is forcing me
to buy in to the Toaster, and I'm pretty much at the mercy of Newtek.  Oh
well...
More? [Y/n/c]               --- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link [phone] TBBS/TIMS  (1:2603/303)

Message Command:

Message #888 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 15 Oct 93  11:48:00
From: John Hileman
  To: Peter Greci
Subj: Re: Creating Humanoid Images

I think what miss archer was asking is ( what program can take a
tri-view and turn it into a complex shape like a head or body.  Not a
simple shape like a logo.)


--- RoboBOARD/FX 1.00a
 * Origin:  (1:328/102)

Message Command:

Message #889 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 16 Oct 93  08:21:43
From: Michael Butler
  To: Eduardo Barreto
Subj: WARLOCK/TOASTER

EB>Yes, you are wrong. The toaster has a 'print' resolution that is perfect
fo
  >film, and yes, the "Walock" uses morphing done on the Amiga plus other
  >effects....

Then, considering the price of the toaster, why has it taken off in
television production and not theatrical motion picture production?

And this 'print' resolution is 3-4K lines? (which is what 35mm would
be if you were to measure it in 'lines')

 * 1st 1.11 #2055 *
--- Renegade v07-17 Beta
 * Origin: Goldfinger's --  Houston, TX  --  [phone] (1:106/604)

Message Command:

Message #890 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 16 Oct 93  11:29:35
From: Rich Koster
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: re: Toaster v. others

Hi Paulo!

On Thursday, October 14th '93 you wrote to Mike Nielsen:

 PDA> I have found a way to do the same thing on the PC. I have a Targa
 PDA> 64+ and Animator Pro. There is a special driver for the Targa that
 PDA> does some awesome dithering of flics, so it allows you to run
 PDA> animations in real time to video, much like with DCTV [...]

Have you ever heard of IBM animations that have ".sec" at the end of
their filenames?  I would like to know of a way to run these on my
Amiga, preferably through my Toaster.

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #891 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 15 Oct 93  20:47:44
From: Kerry Archer
  To: PETER Greci
Subj: Re: Creating humanoid images

Is this just for the Amiga, or is there something for PC's that does this?
If so, where might I mind 'em?  Thanks!

-Kerry

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: The Fusion Board (1:324/172)

Message Command:

Message #892 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 16 Oct 93  10:38:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Dan York
Subj: Screamer

-> Well...
->       I am not saying your informant on the Screamer only having one
-> processor is inaccurate, but the interview article in Video Toaster
-> User magazine with Tim Jenison and Paul Montgomery ( NewTek ) says
-> the Screamer has FOUR RISC processors. They ought to know...they
-> manufacture it! Out of all the news releases and the rumors online
-> and off, yours is the only one I've seen that speaks of just one
-> processor. I believe you've been mis-informed.

I hope you are right, Dan. But since the information NewTek puts out is
very vague and sometimes inacurate (they said a new Toaster Paint would
be available by the time the final Toaster 1.0 came out), I guess we'll
only know for sure when the Screamer is for sale.

BTW, where are the NewTek people when we need this kind of information?
Don't they access this echo?
More? [Y/n/c]               --- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #893 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: Sat 16 Oct 93 12:24
From: Nancy Kowall
  To: James Kewageshig
Subj: Re: Seaquest

Anyone notice that the week before, when the kid was playing video games-
the screen showed Louis Markoya's 3D shield and sword fighting with the 3D
skeleton that was done for another show (Amazing stories, I think)...

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Mike's Video House - Glendale, CA 818-240-1593 (1:102/852)

Message Command:

Message #894 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: Sat 16 Oct 93 12:39
From: Nancy Kowall
  To: All
Subj: FastLane controller

Has anyone tried the German FASTLANE SCSI II controller in their Toastered
machine (4000)- I am picking one up next week and hope they don't cause any
weird incompatibilities.

Let me know if you have heard any untoward comments- I'd appreciate it.

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Mike's Video House - Glendale, CA 818-240-1593 (1:102/852)

Message Command:

Message #895 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 16 Oct 93  14:56:00
From: Mike Nielsen
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: Toaster v. others

PD>I have found a way to do the same thing on the PC. I have a Targa 64+
PD>and Anim Pro. There is a special driver for the Targa that does some
PD>awesome dithering of flics, so it allows you to run animations in real
PD>time to video, much like with DCTV

I had heard a bit about this, but I never saw it in action.  I was looking
at Targa cards when Ron and the other Toaster guys lit into me about the
advantages of the Amiga.  (back in the days when this was just plain Video
echo <g> ).

I just got my 2000 - 040 system up and running.  I actually stepped down
from a 3000 because I could not find an 040 accelerator for the 3000 and
the 3000 does not have enough slots for me.  I am looking at getting the
Sunrise card to solve my audio problems stemming from the lack of stereo
linear editing on my Panasonic AG-1960 machines.  The thought of being
able to sweeten and clean up the sound tracks.  They offered a deal to
More? [Y/n/c]               Toaster owners (see how I got it back on topic, Ron?) last month where you
could get the card and their SMPTE stuff for $1275.  Pretty good deal.

 * Wave Rider 0.36 Beta *

---
 * Origin: Theorem Beach, Viola, DE  (1:2600/140)

Message Command:

Message #896 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 15 Oct 93  17:04:22
From: PETER Greci
  To: Joe Miller
Subj: Re: LightRave

NO you CANNOT run LW on a IBM/Compatable at this time wether you have
Lightrave or not

---
 * Origin: The Trade-N-Post (AMIGA) NYC [6Gigs
4Lines]718-847-4439(1:2603/207)

Message Command:

Message #897 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 6)
Date: 15 Oct 93  17:09:23
From: PETER Greci
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: Toaster News...

Finally someone who see's REALITY. As you said, Newtek is in Business to
make as much $$$ as possible. Their goal isn't to help artists etc just to
get $$$ with a nice product. No one is holding a gun to anyones head and
saying "Buy this Toaster or Else"

---
 * Origin: The Trade-N-Post (AMIGA) NYC [6Gigs
4Lines]718-847-4439(1:2603/207)

Message Command:

Message #898 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 5)
Date: 15 Oct 93  13:21:42
From: Sam Kanter
  To: Dan York
Subj: Re: AUTO-HUE

>magazine that talks about performing AutoHue. Basically you want to NOT be
>running the Toaster software at the time of AutoHue-ing, have a real

Hmmm... I don't quite get it. Usually the Autohue will default upon bootup
if it hasn't been done.

I'll check the issue of VTU -- thanks.
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link [phone] TBBS/TIMS  (1:2603/303)

Message Command:

Message #899 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 6)
Date: 15 Oct 93  13:30:50
From: Sam Kanter
  To: Scott Pessoni
Subj: Re: TOASTER 4000 DEMO A/B ROL

I would look at Amilink's A-B roll system as it controls the Toaster much
more completely than Future Video's system, which is just a GPI trigger.
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link [phone] TBBS/TIMS  (1:2603/303)

Message Command:

Message #900 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 5)
Date: 18 Oct 93  15:16:05
From: Karl Feltner
  To: Peter Greci
Subj: Re: Toaster News...

The Toster wasn't priced with the artist in mind?? They could have done
the same as all the other specialty video products companies did and
charge what the market will bear.
I think NewTek was more than sensitive (and still is) to the artist.
Because you bought one Ford should the mfg supply you with a new one
(at a reduced cost).
Should NewTek eat all the R&D on the new improvements? If their marketing
had not courted the movie industry, the Amiga would still be reguarded as
a game machine. Lastly if not for NewTek the Amiga in the US would be
GONE and forgotten! When in the past has the "artist" been able to afford
a professional tool like the Toaster? I rest my case.
--- Star-Net v1.02
 * Origin: ToasterPro BBS. 215-356-7442 14.4 24hrs (1:273/320.0)

Message is reply to #897.

Message Command:

Message #901 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 17 Oct 93  17:50:17
From: Chris Baugh
  To: J Eric Chard
Subj: Re: '040 with > 16megs RAM

On (16 Oct 93) J Eric Chard wrote to Chris Baugh...

 JE>         I was under the impression that PP&S products were no longer
 JE> available in any way shape or form.

Did they go out of business after their fire?

--- PPoint 1.64
 * Origin: from the Pacific Northwest! (1:105/290.5)

Message Command:

Message #902 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 18 Oct 93  15:03:11
From: Dan Bloomfield
  To: Eduardo Barreto
Subj: WARLOCK/TOASTER

-> MB> EB>Yes, you are wrong. The toaster has a 'print' resolution that
-> is MB> perfect fo
-> MB>   >film, and yes, the "Walock" uses morphing done on the Amiga
-> plus MB> other
-> MB>   >effects....
The Toaster per se does NOT have a print resolution. LightWave has a
print res option of 3K X 2K but if the rendered frame is output through
the Toaster's framebuffer it is only DISPLAYED at 752 X 480.
Remember the name of the product the VIDEO Toaster.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 beta
 * Origin: Mercury Opus * 10 Gigs/1200 Confs * 813-321-0734 (1:3603/20)

Message Command:

Message #903 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 17 Oct 93  14:17:48
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Joe Miller
Subj: Ibm Toaster wanted

RL>    Tom, your wish is not about to come true anytime
RL> soon. THe closest you c
RL>    get is an IBM controlling a Toaster via a
RL> hard/software set up. You stil

Joe - what he means by the above post when he says `a toaster setup` is an
AMIGA&TOASTER  Purchase an Amiga 4000 then a Toaster4000.

 JM> Will LW run on an IBM with that Video Machine?

NO - Lightwave is an AMIGA-COMPUTER program.


--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #904 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 18 Oct 93  14:56:00
From: Vic Cole
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: gc electronics

 On 10-15-93 PAULO DE ANDRADE wrote to VIC COLE...

PD> -> PD> TF solvent in nothing but Freon. The advantage of freon (and
PD> the
PD> -> PD> reason
PD> -> PD> why all tv networks use it) is that it leaves no residues and
PD> -> does not PD> attact the head components. An acetone based liquid
PD> -> could do serious PD> damage to the heads.
PD> -> PD>
PD> -> PD> You can order TF Solvent from MCM Electronics, phone
PD> -> 1-800-543-4330 PD> --- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
PD> -> PD>  * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)
PD>
PD> -> Why, I'm surprised at you!  Don't you know that freon is a
PD> -> flourocarbon?  This is the compound which is responsible for your
PD> -> most recent sunburn...or is it global warming...maybe global
More? [Y/n/c]               PD> cooling?
PD> -> Well, the politicians tell us that it's
PD> -> bad, and they never lie, so it must be bad stuff, right?
PD>
PD> You got me there!  :-)
PD>
PD> It leaves no residues on equipment, but it sure does on the
PD> atmosphere.
PD>
PD> It's not harmful to VTR heads, but it is to human heads...
PD>
PD> It will clean up the signals and make the Toaster happy. It will make
PD> the sun toast you and make the doctor happy...
PD>
PD> Let's see... There are no special warnings on my can of TF Solvent. It
PD> actually reads "Contains Ozone Safe Propellent". Sounds safe to me.
PD> But wait!  It says here "Caution, Container May Explode if Heated"
PD> Wow! Better not insert the can in the toaster...
PD> --- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
PD>  * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Actually, the ozone crisis is a complete myth.  Ozone is no more a radiation
More? [Y/n/c]               shield than alcohol is the fuel for fermentation.  The FORMATION of ozone
from
oxygen is the radiation block.  There are lots of competent scients out
there
who know this, but are apparently so scared that Vice President Gore will
yank
their funding that they don't speak up.  Consider this:  the patents for
flourocarbon refrigerants are expiring soon.  When this happens, production
will be open to everyone, which will cause a loss of revenue for those
original
manufacturers.  I'll give you one guess which corporations have "pioneered"
development of the "ozone safe" CFC substitutes...yepper, the same ones who
developed the CFCs in the first place.  New patents, new expiration dates.

A wise man once said, "if no motive is apparent, check money".

Vic
--- FreeMail 1.09
 * Origin: Solid Rock BBS - Agana, GU - USA [phone] (1:345/3014)

Message Command:

Message #905 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 5)
Date: Sun 17 Oct 93 20:53
From: James Hastings-Trew
  To: Peter Greci
Subj: Re: gc electronics

In a message dated 15 Oct 93  17:11:30, PETER Greci wrote:

 PET> But FREON is hazardous to the Enviroment, ergo this TF stuff may end
 PET> up OUTLAWED.

I don't want to start the environmental wars here in the Video Echo, but
there is no solid scientific evidence that supports the theory that CFC's
and FREON have anything at all to do with the environment. It may be
outlawed, but the real reason may have more to do with expiring patents on
manufacture of the chemicals than they do with how harmful they may or may
not be. Hey, find out if Ted Turner and the Planeteers use TF solvent to
keep their equipment clean... if they use it, it HAS to be peachy-keen,
right? Right...

--- DLG Pro v1.0  /DLGMail
 * Origin: n (1:140/90)
More? [Y/n/c]
Message Command:

Message #906 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 5)
Date: 16 Oct 93  08:19:11
From: Larry Reddom
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: Video blaster

PDA>There is no cheap way of doing it, at least with decent quality.
PDA>There are scan converters that start at $500, but the results are far
PDA>from good.
PDA>If you need to output images to tape professionally, why don't you
PDA>contact a service bureau to do it for you?

  Well it sounds like I need to buy an AMIGA after all. OK well for
  starters let say I bought a new AMIGA. What system shoud I be looking
  at and whats all needed? I see a few used toasters for sale around
  here so whats a good price on a used one. Im sure that I will need
  more than an AMIGA 3000 or better and a toaster, Camcorder, VCR, to
  get me going. Could you or any other person in this echo maybe make me
  a list of whats needed to purchase to get started. I know its like
  most things, you buy and find you still need more. I have the NEWTEK
  video demo and was very impressed, but I was also told after that the
  video was done with many toasters and not just one. Hey! want to buy
More? [Y/n/c]                 my video blaster ? or will it come in handy for use with the toaster
  in some way ?
  Thanks for any info you can give me.

   Larry..
---
  OLX 2.1 TD  Mental Floss prevents Moral Decay.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff075/c]
 * Origin: The Viking's Cove, Trenton ON [phone] (1:249/304)

Message Command:

Message #907 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 5)
Date: 18 Oct 93  09:32:23
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: TOASTER/PC

  *In a message dated 15 Oct 93  13:28:05 Sam Kanter writes:

SK> Does the FAST system include SMPTE and other time code in it's
SK> editing? If so, it could be a better value than the toaster for a
SK> complete editing system...

        The Toaster is a SWITCHER, not an edit controller.  It has GPI
triggers.  It doesn't need time code.


*FSED91j*
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #908 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 19 Oct 93  09:37:16
From: Sandy Simpson
  To: J Eric Chard
Subj: Re: got It

JC>  *In a message dated 16 Oct 93  15:47:45 Sandy Simpson writes:

SS> Well, it is labeled PRO_VIDEO on my system.  I was expecting more
SS> general talk about professional video, but still enjoy the Toaster
SS> talk.  <SS>

JC>        Yes, it would be nice to have a place where we could discuss
JC> videoin general without references specifically to the Amiga, the
JC> Toaster, orany computers at all.  I wouldn't mind talking film too,
JC> since it will be
JC> the main acquisition medium for HDTV.

JC>        This is probably possible through the moderator's discretion.


I guess my question is ... is there a real PRO_VIDEO conference out there?
More? [Y/n/c]               If anyone kows, let me know.  As I mentioned, I don't mind Toaster talk, but
would like to see discussions on a wider subject base concerning
professional video.  If the moderator sees this, could you respond to me on
this question?  Thanks.

Sandy Simpson
--- FreeMail 1.09
 * Origin: Solid Rock BBS - Agana, GU - USA [phone] (1:345/3014)

Message Command:

Message #909 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 19 Oct 93  08:49:05
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Nancy Kowall
Subj: Re: VT4000 upgrade woes

Yo, Nance:

  *In a message dated Sat 16 Oct 93 12:29 Nancy Kowall writes:

NK> programs. I couldn't even run Diskmaster in the BG- suddenly, with
NK> the latest board, I can multitask as I did with 2.0- load any number
NK> of LW anims, one after the other, and STILL use the wipes. I think
NK> the early boards were seriously flawed.

        Nance, are you talking TOASTER boards, A4000 motherboards, or RAM
boards?  I couldn't tell from the message.


*FSED91jSC 1.3d* Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder....
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)
More? [Y/n/c]
Message Command:

Message #910 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 19 Oct 93  14:34:00
From: Mike Nielsen
  To: Mark Weiss
Subj: Toaster v. others

MW>SiliconGraphics video hardware) which effortlessly plays 30fps
MW>812x632 (test file was limited by hard drive size) on a 24-bit

Mark: Thanks for replying.  The thing I was interested in was the SOFTWARE
that allows you to do this.  There is a program called f16 that from
Rainbow Technologies that allows 16 bit flicks, but I have not seen any 24
bit animation generation programs.  What is the name of the software or is
it some sort of demo program?  When I was using 3D Studio, I could
generate sequential frames of 24 bit Targa files but at that point I had
to convert to 256 color flicks to do real-time playback.  Does the
Pellucid board come with something that allows you to compile real-time 24
bit flicks from .tga frames?

 * Wave Rider 0.36 Beta *

---
More? [Y/n/c]                * Origin: Theorem Beach, Viola, DE  (1:2600/140)

Message Command:

Message #911 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  00:08:22
From: Dave Wells
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: For anyone who is interested

I'll be attending a computer show tomorrow and Thursday at which the Video
Machine will be demo'd.  I've already decided I don't want a Toaster, in
light of the support (or lack thereof) issue, and the VM looks like a viable
alternative for my needs.  Besides, although they don't have the frame
syncronizers (which the VM WILL have), my AG-1970's have pseudo TBCs and the
VM is supposed to work well with them.

Yeah, I know, and I'd love to have AG-7750s, but my budget simply can't
afford it!

If anyone would like a report on the VM (or a confirmation that it actually
WORKS!) leave a message to that effect.

--- T.A.G. 2.6f2a Beta
 * Origin: The Music Connection (1:106/1000)

Message Command:

Message #912 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  00:17:02
From: Dave Wells
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: The FAST Video Machine ...

Yes, the VM does have support for time code.  It reads and writes VITC,
although conflicting documentation says that you need the Studio Control Box
for anything other than Sony RC time code.  But the SCB allows LTC as well
and interfaces to RS-232 and RS-422 decks, whereas the basic VM uses
Control-L and Panasonic 5-pin interfaces.

The Studio Control Box is an additional $1500.

--- T.A.G. 2.6f2a Beta
 * Origin: The Music Connection (1:106/1000)

Message Command:

Message #913 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 19 Oct 93  19:42:00
From: Terry Dailey
  To: Darrell Schmidt
Subj: Re: sex

RV>To everyone What do you think of casual sex on the first date?Do you think
tRV>condoms really considered safe sex or is mutual masterbation considered
evenRV>safer sex?Do feel free to express your self and give your views an
opinions.

DS> A new name for my TWIT list.  Ray Vaillancourt!

Don't jump the gun to fast bud... He could have made a mistake and
posted his message in the wrong message base.

                                     Terry D.

...                  [e-mail]
 * Q-Blue 0.91 BETA *


More? [Y/n/c]               --- WM v3.10/93-0089
 * Origin: Sherman's Shelter BBS, San Bruno, [phone]  (1:125/5109)

Message Command:

Message #914 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 19 Oct 93  10:48:01
From: J Eric Chard
  To: All
Subj: Pixel Dissolve- HOW?

        I'm looking for a way to accomplish a "pixel dissolve" using ADPro.

        A pixel dissolve is when an image's pixels are replaced with either
an underlying picture or with pixels of a color that will be trans-
parent after a compositing process.  In this case, the image will be
composited and output to a PAR.

(I know this is possible under the Director, but I need it in 24bits
and more controllable.)

        Anybody with practical knowledge of how to accomplish this?

        (Of course, this happens over a series of frames....)


*FSED91j*
More? [Y/n/c]               --- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #915 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 17 Oct 93  23:09:00
From: Scott Marlowe
  To: Scott Pessoni
Subj: Touch Screen-  Toaster To

SP>Sort of off the subject but is thare a good touch screen for Amiga
SP>computers?  I have never really heard of one... Mabye you could program
SP>it so you could touch the screen for the differnt buses?  That would be
SP>convenent! :)  Any other IdeaS?

MicroTouch makes an incredibly nice touchscreen for the Amiga.  It
is a glass-capacitor screen with NO ugly cross hatched pattern, and
no ugly plastic feel.  You take the monitor apart, and place the
screen between the tube and the front bezel.  Looks just like a part
of the original monitor.

Their number is: 1-508-659-9000.  I do not know if they sell retail,
as I buy from them wholesale.  Cost for a kit for a 7 to 14 inch
monitor is around $800 installed, and 15 to 21 inch is another $150
or so, including labor.  They also have a thing where they can make
the screen a physical part of the CRT so that it is gas bonded to
More? [Y/n/c]               it.  Cannot be broken without actually breaking the CRT.  Runs about
$3000 to $4000.


 * AmiQWK 1.2 *


--- DlgQWK v0.71a/DLGMail
 * Origin: CYBERMIGA! Boulder, Colorado [phone] (1:104/121)

Message Command:

Message #916 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  18:39:11
From: Dan Bloomfield
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

-> With the latest version of LightWave 3D, Toasters *do* morph objects.
All versions of LightWave including 1.0 morphed objects. 3.0 also morphs
surface attributes which may be what you are referring to. Unfortunately
you still have to have the same number of points,in the same numerical
order in a 3D model, which makes morphing of the kind often seen
impossible (i.e an actor's face into something else.) For these kind of
morphs a 2D package is much more practical as you can morph live action
footage with no restrictions.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 beta
 * Origin: Mercury Opus * 10 Gigs/1200 Confs * 813-321-0734 (1:3603/20)

Message Command:

Message #917 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  18:44:11
From: Dan Bloomfield
  To: Gregg Mercede
Subj: Re: Toaster/PC

-> No need to come off as a smart ass who thinks he has the killer
-> computer, and everything else is no good.
->
-> It would seem to me, if the Video Toaster didn't exist, the Amiga
-> would have dried up a long time ago.
->
-> It is basically dead for all other purposes in comparison to the PC,
-> and even the MAC.
I guess it takes one to know one. This isn't the first time consumers
have chosen an inferior standard over a superior one. Beta had better
quality than VHS but cheap VHS clones drove Beta out because Sony
wouldn't license the standard and because rental stores stopped carrying
Beta tapes.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 beta
 * Origin: Mercury Opus * 10 Gigs/1200 Confs * 813-321-0734 (1:3603/20)

Message Command:

Message #918 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  18:57:11
From: Dan Bloomfield
  To: Peter Greci
Subj: Re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

-> I believe that the Toasters PRINT rez is approx 3008*1920
As I posted on this topic the other day, the TOASTER does NOT have a
print res. Anything that comes out of the Toaster's program out video is
752 X 480. LightWave will render at print res, but you would have to
output it thru a high resolution display device.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 beta
 * Origin: Mercury Opus * 10 Gigs/1200 Confs * 813-321-0734 (1:3603/20)

Message Command:

Message #919 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 19 Oct 93  17:43:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: re: Toaster v. others

-> Have you ever heard of IBM animations that have ".sec" at the end of
-> their filenames?  I would like to know of a way to run these on my
-> Amiga, preferably through my Toaster.

Sorry, Rich. Never heard of it.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #920 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 19 Oct 93  17:49:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: TOASTER/PC

-> Does the FAST system include SMPTE and other time code in it's
-> editing? If so, it could be a better value than the toaster for a
-> complete editing system...

Yes, it does read SMPTE time code. It also works without time code.
It works with basically all types of VTRs, from control-l to
RS 422.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #921 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 19 Oct 93  17:59:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Vic Cole
Subj: gc electronics

-> Actually, the ozone crisis is a complete myth.  Ozone is no more a
-> radiation shield than alcohol is the fuel for fermentation.  The
-> FORMATION of ozone from oxygen is the radiation block.  There are
-> lots of competent scients out there who know this, but are apparently
-> so scared that Vice President Gore will yank their funding that they
-> don't speak up.  Consider this:  the patents for flourocarbon
-> refrigerants are expiring soon.  When this happens, production will
-> be open to everyone, which will cause a loss of revenue for those
-> original
-> manufacturers.  I'll give you one guess which corporations have
-> "pioneered" development of the "ozone safe" CFC substitutes...yepper,
-> the same ones who developed the CFCs in the first place.  New
-> patents, new expiration dates.
-> A wise man once said, "if no motive is apparent, check money".

Good point, Vic!
More? [Y/n/c]
This means we can all keep our video heads clean and not feell guilty
about it.  ;-)
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #922 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  10:39:26
From: John Donlevie
  To: Dan Bloomfield
Subj: Re: Toaster/PC

VHS won because you could record 8 hours if you wanted to put thin
tape init and have it screw up in your deck. Beta was betta....

--- MEBBSNet 0.131
 * Origin: Phila. Amiga Users' Group BBS 215-551-6113/1120 (1:273/912.0)

Message Command:

Message #923 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  10:42:04
From: John Donlevie
  To: Terry Dailey
Subj: Re: sex

maybe he is trying to stir up chat, base has been a little dull lately

--- MEBBSNet 0.131
 * Origin: Phila. Amiga Users' Group BBS 215-551-6113/1120 (1:273/912.0)

Message Command:

Message #924 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 21 Oct 93  10:43:28
From: John Donlevie
  To: Dave Wells
Subj: Re: For anyone who is interested

lets hear it!!!
The Toaster is only a 50% solution at times.

--- MEBBSNet 0.131
 * Origin: Phila. Amiga Users' Group BBS 215-551-6113/1120 (1:273/912.0)

Message Command:

Message #925 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 21 Oct 93  10:45:17
From: John Donlevie
  To: Sandy Simpson
Subj: Re: got It

Cant we just say it here? or will the BBS police come bustin in???
I think a forum on TV practices abnd film too falls under Provideo but
most of the abusers here are computer folks REAL pro Video doesnt
really use computers the have Grass Valley, ADO and TIME CODE!!!
As a matter of fact I would like everyone to write their congressman
and FEDERALLY MANDATE TIMECODE ON ALL CAMCORDERS AND VCR'S afterall
this chip doesnt cost any more than the Close caption chip thats been
mandated! Meanwhile lets discuss TV Sandy!

--- MEBBSNet 0.131
 * Origin: Phila. Amiga Users' Group BBS 215-551-6113/1120 (1:273/912.0)

Message Command:

Message #926 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  10:55:18
From: John Donlevie
  To: Mark Weiss
Subj: Re: Toaster v. others

USELESS IF YOU CANT RECORD IT DIRECT DUDE!

--- MEBBSNet 0.131
 * Origin: Phila. Amiga Users' Group BBS 215-551-6113/1120 (1:273/912.0)

Message Command:

Message #927 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  10:57:30
From: John Donlevie
  To: Gregg Mercede
Subj: Re: Toaster/PC


  *In a message dated 16 Oct 93  18:39:40 Gregg Mercede writes:

>  CB> On (10 Oct 93) Gregg Mercede wrote to Chris Baugh...
>
>  GM> There are several pieces of hardware, and intensive video
>  GM> boards availible to do this in the PC now.
>
>  CB> Have you studied the Amiga hardware reference manuals?  Sure,
> many
>  CB> of the individual features such as a graphics coprocessor are
>  CB> available for isa/vesa machines.  However, the system as a whole
>  CB> doesn't include such things as a blitter and multiple dma
> channels
>  CB> included in the system design.  (Now that Next is out of the
>  CB> hardware business, the Amiga's the only personal computer with
More? [Y/n/c]               > dma
>  CB> for video, audio and interface purposes built into the
> motherboard.)
>
> The PC does have multiple DMA channels though.  I am currently using
> three right now.  One for up to 44.1 kHz digital audio, another for
> sound blaster emulation, and one for a SCSI controller card.  IBM
> has also developed and it is now shipping with OS/2 2.1, full motion
> 30 frames per second video with NO hardware necessary!!!!
>
> Again, I only know a little bit about the hardware that goes into
> making the toaster tic, but also, don't underestimate the PC.  It is
> no longer text based DOS.
>
> --- Maximus/2 2.01wb
>  * Origin: OS/2 Brings DOS sales to its knees! (1:141/270)
But Can you record IT on a VCR????

--- MEBBSNet 0.131
 * Origin: Phila. Amiga Users' Group BBS 215-551-6113/1120 (1:273/912.0)

Message Command:

Message #928 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  10:59:00
From: John Donlevie
  To: Gregg Mercede
Subj: Re: Toaster/PC

  *In a message dated 16 Oct 93  18:33:02 Gregg Mercede writes:

>  OP> In a message of <10-Oct-93 09:16:44> Gregg Mercede (1:141/270)
> wrote:
>
>  GM> A redesign is what I am looking for.  My point is
>  GM> that the PC hardware
>  GM> is powerful enough to handle what the video toaster is doing.
>
>  OP> Are you going to design it? Try calling Newtek and ask them if
> they are
>  OP> considering a redesign to put the Toaster into a
>  OP> computer that is totally unsuited for it.  You just
>  OP> don't get it. The Video Toaster was designed around the
>
> No need to come off as a smart ass who thinks he has the killer
More? [Y/n/c]               > computer, and everything else is no good.
>
> It would seem to me, if the Video Toaster didn't exist, the Amiga
> would have dried up a long time ago.
>
> It is basically dead for all other purposes in comparison to the PC,
> and even the MAC.
>
> --- Maximus/2 2.01wb
>  * Origin: OS/2 Brings DOS sales to its knees! (1:141/270)
Hate to admit it, but that IBM user is probaby right, thank god for
the toaster. anyway withh A5000 look for a merging of technology and
Amiga DOS on "IBM" machines in the next two years if C= makes it that
long.

--- MEBBSNet 0.131
 * Origin: Phila. Amiga Users' Group BBS 215-551-6113/1120 (1:273/912.0)

Message Command:

Message #929 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  11:06:08
From: John Donlevie
  To: All
Subj: KINGS NEW ROBE

I call this the kings new robe because I am tired of reading how great
Toaster 3.0 and the new CG are. But really some VERY BASIC operations
SUCK. What are these? Foremost on the list is the extremely simple
task of keying a title on the lower third. this in REAL television
should be smooth and unobtrusive. The Toaster damn near cuts it on,
this is not smooth andunobtrusive. My client damn near shot me! I had
to load 2.0 on the downstream toaster to get a slower key dissolve
(and rebuild all of my lower thirds...thats TV for those name and job
titles at the lower third of the screen). When I did this, use 2.0, I
noticed that it rendered CG in FARLESS Time than 3.0.(yes I was using
Bitmapp fonts in both versions) Sincelower thirds occur on cue in real
time, there wasno way to set up a key dissolve, which looks like total
sh_t anyway, withoutdoing a match frame edit. This is ok but it makes
8 times as many editsthat sometimes have to be done twice. I have real
decks, I know those ofyou out there with AG 1960's will get glitched
or worse. Lets get to theother nightmare of yesterdays edit, the page
More? [Y/n/c]               turn that I have given thisclient for the last 5 shows, she was ready
to ream me when I told her "sorrynot this time, seems the new software
sucks...". These are two basicfeatures that we had before, with the
Newtek reputation for quality on theline, why was this rushed out with
these BASIC flaws/bugs? I have spent most of my time with the new
release in lightwave which works greatexcept that i cant use english
units in layout even though i can inmodeler. So Why is tech support at
newtek been unreachable since August?Are the more gremlins in this
Pandorra's Box?

--- MEBBSNet 0.131
 * Origin: Phila. Amiga Users' Group BBS 215-551-6113/1120 (1:273/912.0)

Message Command:

Message #930 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  06:21:29
From: Rich Koster
  To: Dan Bloomfield
Subj: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

Hi Dan!

On Wednesday, October 20th '93 you wrote to Peter Greci:

 DB> -> I believe that the Toasters PRINT rez is approx 3008*1920

 DB> As I posted on this topic the other day, the TOASTER does NOT have a
 DB> print res. Anything that comes out of the Toaster's program out video
 DB> is 752 X 480. LightWave will render at print res, but you would have to
 DB> output it thru a high resolution display device.

Why are you continuing to split hairs so, Dan?  If someone wanted to take
a LightWave image to print, they wouldn't be using the video output, now
would they?  What do you expect them to want to do -- to shoot a picture
off the video screen?  Come on!

More? [Y/n/c]               LightWave has a print resolution output, just like many desktop publishing
programs also do.  You don't find people wanting to output to a monitor
when they are making something on a desktop publishing program -- they
output it to a *file* which can be brought to a print shop that deals with
it -- just like LightWave does.

BTW, if anyone wants to print at 150 lpi, that would be an equivalent of
1650 x 2550 on the Amiga.  Since LW can render up to 3008 x 1920, print res
is more than adequate for high quality output, especially with the higher
antialiasing settings.

Many magazines are using full-screen covers made with LightWave, and they
look very good.  I'd be willing to bet not one of the people who made them
even considered outputting them through the *video* output when they wanted
to bring the picture to *print*...

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #931 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: Wed 20 Oct 93 17:05
From: Alan Chan
  To: Peter Greci
Subj: Re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

In a message dated 18 Oct 93  17:21:14, PETER Greci wrote:

 PET> I believe that the Toasters PRINT rez is approx 3008*1920

Just checked.. the resolution will change to soomething like 2668*1920 if
you're using square pixel/Abekas output..   =)


--- DLG Pro v0.999/DLGMail
 * Origin: Amiga Line BBS [phone] V32bis (1:147/2020)

Message Command:

Message #932 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  00:44:03
From: Sandy Simpson
  To: All
Subj: Wanted: AG-450

Looking to buy a Panasonic AG-450 S-VHS Camcorder.  Low hours.  Willing to
pay for one that is in excellent condition.  Leave me a reply here if you
have one you want to sell.  Will also consider other camcorders in the same
category, such as 1 or 2 CCD types.  I need it yesterday!

Sandy Simpson
--- FreeMail 1.09
 * Origin: Solid Rock BBS - Agana, GU - USA [phone] (1:345/3014)

Message Command:

Message #933 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  09:24:45
From: Michael Butler
  To: Dan Bloomfield
Subj: WARLOCK/TOASTER

DB>The Toaster per se does NOT have a print resolution. LightWave has a
  >print res option of 3K X 2K but if the rendered frame is output through
  >the Toaster's framebuffer it is only DISPLAYED at 752 X 480.

How is the 3K x 2K outputted?  (I've never used a toaster.)

 * 1st 1.11 #2055 *
--- Renegade v07-17 Beta
 * Origin: Goldfinger's --  Houston, TX  --  [phone] (1:106/604)

Message Command:

Message #934 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93   0:04:11
From: J. Moore
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

 JEC>          If it was MORPHING, it more than likely was Morph Pluse
 JEC> (ASDG) and had little or nothing to do with the Toaster.  Toasters
 JEC> don't morph.
RK> With the latest version of LightWave 3D, Toasters *do* morph objects.

Yes, it's nice that Lightwave now does what Aladdin4D could do last year,
but Amiga-generated morphing on TV or movies is pretty much always done
with ASDG's Morph Plus.

For instance, on Babylon 5, which got an Emmy for special effects (some
done with Lightwave and some with Morph Plus).

 * Q-Blue v0.7 [NR]
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #935 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 18 Oct 93  18:25:50
From: Chris Baugh
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: Lightwave without a toast

On (15 Oct 93) Ron Kramer wrote to Bill Beogelein...

 RK> here.  Its plain and simple.

Ron, I don't think you looked at another reasonable point of view
here: Lightrave lets Toaster owners do Lightwave rendering on one
machine (which doesn't have a Toaster installed) while using their
Toaster as a switcher/CG/dve/framestore (without Lightwave active).
One user, one copy, one use at a time of each program they bought,
just that there is more than one machine involved.  It's plain and
simple, nothing illegal, immoral or fattening about it.

--- PPoint 1.64
 * Origin: from the Pacific Northwest! (1:105/290.5)

Message Command:

Message #936 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 18 Oct 93  18:36:12
From: Chris Baugh
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Environment

Ron, if people are very concerned about the potential hazards of
cleaning products which can be used with a Toaster,  feel free to
ask them to drop me a note for a brief bibliography about
environmental chemistry.  The subject is peripheral at best to the
Toaster, but I may be able to help folks find some more info if
they're really interested.

--- PPoint 1.64
 * Origin: from the Pacific Northwest! (1:105/290.5)

Message Command:

Message #937 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  11:08:00
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: Re: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

  *In a message dated 18 Oct 93  06:55:09 Rich Koster writes:

RK> On Saturday, October 16th '93 you wrote to Eduardo Barreto:
RK>
RK>  JEC>          If it was MORPHING, it more than likely was Morph
RK> Pluse
RK>  JEC> (ASDG) and had little or nothing to do with the Toaster.
RK>  JEC> Toasters don't morph.
RK>
RK> With the latest version of LightWave 3D, Toasters *do* morph objects.
             ^^^^^^
        Wrong again, Rich.  2.0 morphed also.

        Please get real.  IF "Warlock" featured 3d CGI, like a logo, and it
morphed, sure, you could use Lightwave.  If you are talking a totally
arbitrary morph, image to image, Lightwave does nothing.  Considering the
More? [Y/n/c]               probably subject matter of a movie named "Warlock", i.e. magic and sorcery,
I doubt that morphing logos was a big concern.

        Sheesh.  Why are fido-netters so pedantic?  ;-0


*FSED91jSC 1.3d* Don't you just hate it when peoples tag lines are too lon
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #938 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  18:56:09
From: Otis F. Ivie
  To: Darrell Schmidt
Subj: sex

Ray, you can't spell -- this doesn't belong on the Toaster board and I say
your not a TWIT but a TWAT!

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.4w
 * Origin: Mouse Trap * Serving Amigas Since 1987 * 619-464-2134 (1:202/122)

Message Command:

Message #939 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 19 Oct 93  18:01:48
From: Chris Westfall
  To: J Eric Chard
Subj: got It

In a message of 17 Oct 93 J Eric Chard wrote to Sandy Simpson:

 JEC>   *In a message dated 16 Oct 93  15:47:45 Sandy Simpson writes:

 SS>> Well, it is labeled PRO_VIDEO on my system.  I was expecting more
 SS>> general talk about professional video, but still enjoy the Toaster
 SS>> talk.  <SS>

 JEC>         Yes, it would be nice to have a place where we could discuss
 JEC> video in general without references specifically to the Amiga, the
 JEC> Toaster, or any computers at all.  I wouldn't mind talking film too,
 JEC> since it will be the main acquisition medium for HDTV.

 JEC>         This is probably possible through the moderator's discretion.


More? [Y/n/c]                JEC> *FSED91j*
 JEC> --- Star-Net v1.02a
 JEC>  * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

   They seem pretty sticky about keeping this echo all Toaster but there is
another echo called Pro_Video which, I beleive, is open to all of the above
topics.


Chris Westfall

--- Spot 1.2a Unreg.
 * Origin: Chris' BBS Nanaimo, B.C. (1:351/230.0)

Message Command:

Message #940 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 19 Oct 93  17:09:33
From: PETER Greci
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: Re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

The Morph in the film Warlock was a 2D morph not a 3D morph. Hence the folks
saying that someting other than a Toaster was responseable.

---
 * Origin: The Trade-N-Post (AMIGA) NYC [6Gigs
4Lines]718-847-4439(1:2603/207)

Message Command:

Message #941 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 19 Oct 93  12:20:53
From: Sam Kanter
  To: James Hastings-trew
Subj: Re: SAY IT!

>Sam, this is really uncalled for.

James, you're right, it was uncalled for.

It's just that the sight of Rush Limbaugh's name really pushes my buttons,
and I think that my point about paying some attention to the message rather
than -just- the medium is quite relevant. If Limbaugh was using the Toaster
to advocate death to certain minority groups, do you think we should all
cheer that he's using the Toaster?

I continually see wonderful technology used on TV for the most inane and
tasteless rubbish.  It does not make me happy, and I can't keep quiet about
it.  I personally believe Limbaugh is a dangerous man, and this far
outweighs
my enjoyment of seeing his producers use the Toaster on his show.

More? [Y/n/c]               I won't talk about this again, and I apologize if I've been off topic...
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link [phone] TBBS/TIMS (1:2603/303)

Message Command:

Message #942 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 20 Oct 93  08:51:45
From: Mark Hawes
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: TOASTER NEWS...

-> >Just color me p*ssed.
->
-> I think, in general the picture is becoming quite clear:
->
-> Newtek, Apple, IBM, and every other hardware and sofware company are
-> BUSINESSES and CORPORATIONS who are out to make the biggest profit po
-> not to develop the creative and artistic careers of their users.
-> Making upgradable products is NOT in their self-interest.  Making us
-> hardware as often as possible IS.
->
-> When a company like Newtek has a great product like the Toaster, with
-> real competition, they have more power to exploit this fact.
->
-> This is capitalism, like it or not. I'm pissed too, but no one is for
-> to buy in to the Toaster, and I'm pretty much at the mercy of Newtek.
-> well...
More? [Y/n/c]               Makes you feel warm and fuzzy all over doesn't it? Well, when I'm ready
to spend that kind of money again (board and computer) there will be
OTHER realistic options besides NEWTEK....<G>.


--- WM v2.04/92-0335
 * Origin: The MoonRose HQ BBS - [phone] USA (1:363/153)

Message Command:

Message #943 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 5)
Date: 19 Oct 93  16:44:50
From: Scott Pessoni
  To: Kenneth Gunton <Received>
Subj: Re: Y/C Signal?  Is it realy

 KG> yes, it is worth it! An easy way to tell the difference
 KG> would be to put up bars on a composite and a Y/c
 KG> monitor. You'll see chroma crawl on composite, and the
 KG> Y/C will show straight lines at the color junctions.
Okay... Since SVHS is recorded in Y/C that will be recorded right?  That
reminds me:

- If you record a VHS (Composite) is it worth the quality to use a SVHS
master   tape?

 KG> In video, bandwidth is important. Even better than Y/C
 KG> would be component, but the cost of equipment goes up
 KG> astronomically. If you want some information on Y/C
 KG> TBCs, give me a call during the day at 513-434-5078.

Ya.. If you have Y/C VTR's and you input it to a TBC that converts it to a
More? [Y/n/c]               composite output so you could use it in the TOASTER.  After it passes
through the TOASTER you have two choices:

1. Let the VCR convert it to Y/C for SVHS (AG-1970)

2. Buy a card that converts it to Y/C then record.

WHat would be better?

One thing I noticed is that just because it has Y/C inputs that it doesent
mean that it has the quality of it!  Component is often found on the
broadcast decks!  What is component made up of anyways?  Y/C/R or
something...
        -Scott

--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: Treasure Island =HST/DS= 203-791-8532 (1:141/730)

Message Command:

Message #944 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 19 Oct 93  16:28:24
From: Scott Pessoni
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: TOASTER 4000 DEMO A/B ROL

 SK> I would look at Amilink's A-B roll system as it
 SK> controls the Toaster much more completely than Future
 SK> Video's system, which is just a GPI trigger.

Really?  Can you give me a phone number of the place that makes that or some
info?
        -Scott


--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: Treasure Island =HST/DS= 203-791-8532 (1:141/730)

Message Command:

Message #945 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 19 Oct 93  03:06:55
From: Jim Mixon
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: Screamer

On Saturday October 16 1993, Paulo De Andrade said to Dan York:


 PDA> BTW, where are the NewTek people when we need this kind of information?
 PDA> Don't they access this echo?

They must....it says so in VTU........<grin>

jim


--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, ExEd 1.02
 * Origin: Toaster Universe BBS [phone] 16.8K Dual Standard (1:135/355)

Message Command:

Message #946 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 21 Oct 93  14:12:00
From: Eric Fleischer
  To: J Eric Chard
Subj: Re: Pixel Dissolve- HOW?

JEC>        I'm looking for a way to accomplish a "pixel dissolve" using
JEC> ADPro.
JEC>        A pixel dissolve is when an image's pixels are replaced with
JEC> either
JEC> an underlying picture or with pixels of a color that will be trans-
JEC> parent after a compositing process.  In this case, the image will be
JEC> composited and output to a PAR.

JEC> (I know this is possible under the Director, but I need it in 24bits
JEC> and more controllable.)

JEC>        Anybody with practical knowledge of how to accomplish this?

    Easy, use the PIXEL DISSOLVE operator. You mean there isn't one? Rats.

    The way that I'd do it, since there isn't a pixel dissolve operator, is
More? [Y/n/c]               to use an alpha channel controlled dissolve with FRED. Make yourselve a
series of 8bit greyscale IFFs to use as an alpha channel sequence, each
frame masking the next step in your pixel dissolve, and use the FRED
composite sequencer with alpha control. You can use a sequence of frames or
a single frame of, say, key blue as the target sequence.

    <ELF> aka DrGandalf

 * Q-Blue v0.7 *
--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: * MetroNet * Columbia, MD * 6 Gigs * (1:261/1137)

Message Command:

Message #947 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 20 Oct 93  13:35:02
From: Sam Kanter
  To: J Eric Chard
Subj: Re: TOASTER/PC

        >The Toaster is a SWITCHER, not an edit controller.  It has GPI
>triggers.  It doesn't need time code.

I know what the Toaster is as I've owned one sivce it's inception. It is a
swithcher that requires an outboard edit controller, unlike the FAST system
that has both. I'm sure the Toaster WILL include an edit controller in the
non too distant future -- or else they'll go non-linear.
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link/TBBS/TIMS [phone] 4-Lines
(1:2603/303)

Message Command:

Message #948 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  23:03:52
From: Rich Koster
  To: PETER Greci
Subj: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

Hi PETER!

On Tuesday, October 19th '93 you wrote to me:

 PG> How does one use "Limited Region" to create non standard Image sizes
 PG> in LW??? I can't seem to figger this one out.

Look at the explanation on page 47 of the LightWave manual.  The lower
right side of the page is labelled "LightWave - Layout - Camera Menu -
47".  The section headlined "Limited Region" and "Set Region Limits"
tell you all you'll need to know to get up and running with this feature.

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #949 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  23:07:21
From: Rich Koster
  To: Michael Butler
Subj: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

Hi Michael!

On Wednesday, October 20th '93 you wrote to Dan Bloomfield:

 MB> How is the 3K x 2K outputted?  (I've never used a toaster.)

Through a 24-bit file.

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #950 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  22:20:11
From: Dan Bloomfield
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

-> Why are you continuing to split hairs so, Dan?  If someone wanted to
-> take a LightWave image to print, they wouldn't be using the video
-> output, now would they?  What do you expect them to want to do -- to
-> shoot a picture off the video screen?  Come on!
Maybe I didn't understand the thread.I didn't know we were talking about
LightWave only. The posts I responded to didn't specify LightWave,they
said the Toaster which as I accurately stated does not have a print res.
If you wanted to print a framegrab or a CG page 752X480 is the best you
would get.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 beta
 * Origin: Mercury Opus * 10 Gigs/1200 Confs * 813-321-0734 (1:3603/20)

Message Command:

Message #951 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  22:22:11
From: Dan Bloomfield
  To: Michael Butler
Subj: WARLOCK/TOASTER

-> How is the 3K x 2K outputted?  (I've never used a toaster.)
You can save it as a standard IFF file, and then output it thru a film
recorder.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 beta
 * Origin: Mercury Opus * 10 Gigs/1200 Confs * 813-321-0734 (1:3603/20)

Message Command:

Message #952 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  16:27:24
From: Gregg Mercede
  To: Nick Blazanovic
Subj: Amiga

 NB> In a message of 16 Oct 93 Gregg Mercede wrote to Chris Baugh:

 GM> IBM has
 GM> also developed and it is now shipping with OS/2 2.1, full motion 30
 GM> frames per second video with NO hardware necessary!!!!

 NB> Yes, the Amiga has had this since its release in the
 NB> mid eighties without any additional hardware necessary.

Everyone here is very hostile about their sweet little Amiga's.  Are you
guys afraid that Commodore is going out of business?

All I meant was is with operating systems such as OS/2, the PC can proved to
be much more powerful of a Multi-Media tool than a lot are giving it credit
for.

More? [Y/n/c]               --- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: OS/2 Brings DOS sales to its knees! (1:141/270)

Message Command:

Message #953 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  16:29:40
From: Gregg Mercede
  To: Dan Bloomfield
Subj: Re: Toaster/PC

-> No need to come off as a smart ass who thinks he has the killer
-> computer, and everything else is no good.
->
-> It would seem to me, if the Video Toaster didn't exist, the Amiga
-> would have dried up a long time ago.
->
-> It is basically dead for all other purposes in comparison to the PC,
-> and even the MAC.
 DB> I guess it takes one to know one. This isn't the first time consumers
 DB> have chosen an inferior standard over a superior one. Beta had better
 DB> quality than VHS but cheap VHS clones drove Beta out because Sony
 DB> wouldn't license the standard and because rental stores stopped carrying

OK, lighten up.  I think another reason might be lack of software, due to
lack of market.  And also lack of hardware resellers.

More? [Y/n/c]               The last Amiga show in New York I attended was almost empty.  The year
before it was huge.

What is going on.

--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: OS/2 Brings DOS sales to its knees! (1:141/270)

Message Command:

Message #954 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  23:55:21
From: Dave Wells
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: Too late ...

At least for some, to order a case of anything containing freon or other
CFCs. According to a sign at one of the largest vendors in town, they can't
sell it to anyone for other than a commercial application.  And they check
ID, too (Federal Employer ID #, State Sales Tax Permit, etc) before they'll
sell it to you.  The sign states that the feds finally ruled in JANUARY of
this year.

--- T.A.G. 2.6f2a Beta
 * Origin: The Music Connection (1:106/1000)

Message Command:

Message #955 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  02:11:11
From: Hammed Malik
  To: J. Moore
Subj: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

Hello J!

RK> With the latest version of LightWave 3D, Toasters *do* morph
RK>objects.

JM>Yes, it's nice that Lightwave now does what Aladdin4D could do last
JM>year,

Lightwave has had the 'morphing' capability since version 2.

Why do you always feel it necessary to put down the toaster every time
you get a chance?  Toasterphobia or Opalmania? :-)

HM
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)
More? [Y/n/c]
Message Command:

Message #956 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  13:53:01
From: Jim Alexander
  To: All
Subj: lightwave 3D

Hi, I'm a fairly new Toaster User working for a Multiple Systems Operator
(fancy word for cable station) who's boos has just only recently given into
my constant nagging and bought me a Toaster 4000.

I'm still fairly inexperienced and puttering around, and have what may sound
like a stupid question.

Is there any clip-art or animation scene files out there?
Public domain or otherwise?

Thanks.


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Toys For Boys [phone] 101:200/106   Edmonton, AB (1:342/24)

Message Command:

Message #957 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 22 Oct 93  11:57:16
From: Zoltan Hunt
  To: All
Subj: VTU Video

Two issues back, Video Toaster User had a question sheet that asked reader
about the magazine (Aug/Sept 93- Beyond Jarassic Park)
Filling this out was ment to get you a free video in 6-8 weeks.
Has anybody who filled this out received anything yet?
>Zoltan>

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3
 * Origin: 3DArtForumCanada-Toronto 14.4 [phone] (1:250/128)

Message Command:

Message #958 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  10:58:00
From: Rick Lee
  To: Joe Miller
Subj: Lw On ibm

Joe , to my knowledge LightWave will not be ported over to the IBM platform.
And why should it be. NewTek will sell more Toasters and Amigas this way.
Jump on the band wagon or forever try to catch up.

---
 * OFFLINE 1.56

--- MsgToss 2.0d(beta) 02/21/93
 * Origin: Springfield RBBS * Dane, Wis 608-849-5842 (1:121/26)

Message Command:

Message #959 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  23:45:44
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: TOASTER AND VIDEO MISC

 SK> Yep -- I've tried everything: Camcorder output, short
 SK> cable. The colors are still wrong!

Is your TBC set right  (BIG) :)

If running straight in from live camera colors should be close to normal (if
your white balance is properly set)  different cable lenghts will throw
chroma phase off and mess up colors... again its a timing/proc amp
adjustment in the TBC.  If your not using a TBC, you should.

I think autohue just makes the framestores match the live video. I don`t
think it does anything to the color of the toasters live outputs.



--- Maximus 2.00
More? [Y/n/c]                * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #960 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  23:51:42
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Sandy Simpson
Subj: Re: got It

 SS> Well, it is labeled PRO_VIDEO on my system.  I was
 SS> expecting more general talk about professional video,
 SS> but still enjoy the Toaster talk.  <SS>

Please ask your sysop to change the name to VIDEO-TOASTER. PRO_VIDEO is
another echo entirely.  Moderated by Mark Shandler.



--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #961 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 20 Oct 93  23:57:22
From: Ron Kramer
  To: James Hastings-Trew
Subj: Re: SAY IT!

 SK> While it's great that Rush Limbaugh's show is using the Toaster for
 SK> it's graphics, let's not forget that Rush is an arrogant, bombastic

I find Rushes comentary to be honest and to the point, and often what I`ve
been thinking for months... somebody has to wake up the bungeling masses out
there... but then this isn`t the forem for discussing RUSH it is.

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #962 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  18:08:32
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: re: Toaster/PC

 RK> I'm not the moderator here, Ron is, but I'm paying to receive the
 RK> messages here as are a lot of other people.  So please keep in mind
 RK> *what* we hooked up to this echo to read about, okay?  This is not

Yeah - I`ve a bit guilty as well.  I`ll start enforcing it a bit more...
that is having peoples links cut to the echo who violate by posting off
topic.



--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #963 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 23 Oct 93  01:49:58
From: Dave Wells
  To: John Donlevie <Received>
Subj: Info on the FAST Electronics

I was very impressed by it overall, but possibly the best thing about it is
that it has no Kiki effects!  Hehe!  But seriously, it has some nice
features. The rep said it had over 400 effects, although the docs I've read
previously said 200.  New software is about to be out for it, though, so
that might be it.  It has a 6 input switcher and 2 digital frame buffers.
Any of the 6 inputs can be used with either of the frame buffers, so its
great for doing any of the effects from any input channel.  Although no TBCs
are necessary, since its all done digitally inside the machine, they're nice
to have to correct signal degradation that comes off the tape.  It was
demoed using Panasonic AG-1960s and it looked pretty good with them, but the
AG-1970 has a pseudo TBC which, when combined with the frame buffers on the
VM with all of its color and signal control functions, make the equivalent
of a real TBC.  The effects and the picture-in-picture quality are better
than the toaster because of the digital frame buffers.  Seeing is believing,
too.  The toaster was being demoed right next door.

More? [Y/n/c]               On the versatility side, the VM will control 3 VCRs using either LAN-C or
Panasonic 5-pin.  For an extra $2000 ($2500 if bought separately from the
VM), the Studio Control Box will give you RS-232 and RS-422 capabilities and
allow you to control 9 decks (6 play and 3 record).  At 4:2:2 and 5.5MHz
bandwidth, I don't think any more need be said about the resolution or
quality.

You can create your own transition effects as well, although you're
restricted to the standard flips and rolls and wipes that you'll normally
see.  Picture-in-picture allows reducing a full screen down to whatever size
you and and moving it anywhere.  It has a fully variable chroma key and
luminance key built in as well, and I saw no noticeable artifacts.

The character generator is something else altogether.  It doesn't actually
have one.  Instead, it takes a Windows print file of any length and, running
it through a frame buffer, you get all the transition effects as well as
scrolling.  It was pretty impressive, considering all the TrueType fonts you
can use.  But any drop shadows or other modifications have to be done by the
package generating the print file.  There are a number of them out there
that allow you to do that.

The VM as it sits will allow you to read and write VITC and Sony RC time
More? [Y/n/c]               code. If you want any of 3 or 4 other types, you'll need the Studio Control
Box to get them.

I was most impressed with the interface.  You're not gonna sit right down
and start editing tapes with it as soon as you hook it up, but the tutor is
very good and teaches you how to use the thing within a couple of days.  A
much shorter learning curve than with the Toaster.

There are several options under development right now, but the one that
impressed me most was the digital option.  It will probably cost about $3500
extra and will allow you to use true non-linear editing.  It will also allow
you to use whatever package you wish to generate animation and record it
real-time with no need for a frame accurate or single frame record capable
VCR.  The VM as is will allow animation to be recorded, but it has no
software for it, you have to use 3rd party software and you do need a
single-frame record VCR.  Not so with the forthcoming option mentioned.

Price on the VM is $3995.00 and the Studio Control Box is $2000 when
purchased with the VM, $2500 if purchased separately.  Pretty much everyone
sells it at list, there's not much discounting.  I was impressed, enough so
that I have one on order.  I'll let you all know how it works when I get it
in!
More? [Y/n/c]
Oh, yeah, it runs on an IBM or Mac platform.  Although you can use a 386/33,
they recommend at least a 486/25 (I have a VESA 486/66) and you need at
least 8 megs, preferably 16 megs.  A truecolor type video card is
recommended with 800x600 or 1024x768 resolution.

ANY QUESTIONS?  I'm sure I've left something out that someone wants to know
...


--- T.A.G. 2.6f2a Beta
 * Origin: The Music Connection (1:106/1000)

Message Command:

Message #964 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  13:55:31
From: Sam Kanter
  To: Dave Wells
Subj: Re: THE FAST VIDEO MACHINE ..

>The Studio Control Box is an additional $1500.

Uh, oh...looks like the FAST Video Machine might be FAST at emptying one's
bank account!

I'll stick with the Toaster...
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link/TBBS/TIMS [phone] 4-Lines
(1:2603/303)

Message Command:

Message #965 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 22 Oct 93   4:37:11
From: J. Moore
  To: John Donlevie <Received>
Subj: Re: KINGS NEW ROBE

JD> I call this the kings new robe because I am tired of reading how great
JD> Toaster 3.0 and the new CG are. But really some VERY BASIC operations
JD> SUCK. What are these? Foremost on the list is the extremely simple

JD> sucks...". These are two basicfeatures that we had before, with the
JD> Newtek reputation for quality on theline, why was this rushed out with
JD> these BASIC flaws/bugs? I have spent most of my time with the new
JD> release in lightwave which works greatexcept that i cant use english
JD> units in layout even though i can inmodeler. So Why is tech support at
JD> newtek been unreachable since August?Are the more gremlins in this
JD> Pandorra's Box?

Why has it been 4 months and they haven't managed to put out an index for
their manual?

 * Q-Blue v0.7 [NR]
More? [Y/n/c]               --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #966 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 22 Oct 93  18:40:11
From: Hammed Malik
  To: J. Moore
Subj: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

Hello J,

>You touted LW 3.0's 2-color background display as if it were the
>same thing as the Alias features, when the LW feature in question is
>1) just a tracing/positioning picture (just like Aladdin and Draw 4D
>have had [and with better tracing features] for over a year, and
>2) nowhere near as powerful, useful, and easy to use as the Alias
>feature.

I remeber saying this a while back ( I think Toaster 4000 had just been
realeased).  You're right, it would be nicer if the background image
(the one that can be seen in the layout section) were in full colour.  I
guess it would slow down screen updates too much on current Amigas
though.  I am not familiar with Alias software.  How does it handle
this?  What makes it more 'powerful, useful and easy to use'?

More? [Y/n/c]               >You must have a case of Opal-paranoia, Hammed.  I didn't mention
>ANYTHING about Opal.  Lithium has been found to be quite useful in
>cases like yours. :-)

Sorry for labeling you an Opalmaniac :^)  Its just that most
Toaster/Lightwave bashers tend to be Opal enthusiasts.  I think I'll
pass on the lithium.

You still haven't said why you like to put down Lightwave all the time.
I find it the most useful 3D program I've ever used and don't need to
bash other programs to prove Lightwave's worth.

HM
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #967 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 22 Oct 93  09:03:15
From: J Eric Chard
  To: J. Moore
Subj: Re: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

  *In a message dated 20 Oct 93   0:04:11 J. Moore writes:

JM> Yes, it's nice that Lightwave now does what Aladdin4D could do last
JM> year,

        Lightwave 2.0 (that's TWOpointZERO) also did 3D object morphing,
which I believe was out (and actually useable/useful) long before
Aladdin4D.

        It's lost in the mists of time for me, but somebody here also
posted that even LW 1.0 morphed.  Can't remember that far back, but it is
very possible.

        BTW, what is happening w/A4d?  My >>impression<< is that the user
interface sucked so bad that nobody can do anything useful with it.  It
seems serious users (animators that actually want to make a living, not
More? [Y/n/c]               flog some thread on the nets) gravitate to LW.  I have noticed that all the
reviews for A4d (especially by that bootlicker from some community college
in New England)  REALLY gloss over the modeling aspect of A4d.  Does it
even HAVE a modeler?

        Even if it did, I'd probably still use LWM.  Its 2.0 incarnation
was pretty weak, but the 3.0 version is awesome (a word I don't use
lightly) and the extremely powerful AREXX functionality (user-definable
buttons, lists, string requesters, EVERYTHING) is more complete than I've
seen on ANY amiga program.

        A4d reviews go on and on about "gas objects", which seem
interesting but pretty specialized.


*FSED91j*
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #968 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 22 Oct 93  09:14:22
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: Morphing- LW & M+

  *In a message dated 21 Oct 93  06:12:25 Rich Koster writes:

RK> Yes, that's what I meant.  The earlier versions didn't fully support
RK> 3D morphing, since the surface attributes couldn't be morphed.
RK>
RK>  DB> Unfortunately you still have to have the same number of
RK> points,in the
RK>  DB> same numerical order in a 3D model, which makes morphing of the
RK>  DB> kind often seen impossible (i.e an actor's face into something
RK> else.) For
RK>  DB> these kind of morphs a 2D package is much more practical as you
RK>  DB> can morph live action footage with no restrictions.
RK>
RK> Good point!
         ^^^^^  Is that a pun?  ;-)

More? [Y/n/c]                       Until we can perform arbitrary 3D morphing in LWave (don't hold
your breath, this is what the code jockeys call a "non-trivial problem") we
can still do arbitrary morphing using BOTH LWave and Morph Plus.

        Just render 2 scenes with different objects performing the same
motion path.  This would be dynamite for an "uncloaking" effect.

        As a matter of fact, technically this is the easiest way to perform
a "moving morph", since it is so difficult to acquire moving video on the
Amiga.  Currently, for commercial high-end work, it seems the best option
is capture by Abekas 60, using an Exabyte for data transfer.  That solution
costs the artist >$2K.  OK for professionals, but still.
        I have great hopes for the new Seagate drive that will connect to
the PAR.  Supposedly it is MUCH better than the 3600 at capturing moving
video.  If we can get Q-factors of >18 we can probably sell the resulting
product to ad agencies.
        With rendered images, of course, you don't need to screw around
with capture.


*FSED91j*
--- Star-Net v1.02a
More? [Y/n/c]                * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #969 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  23:28:28
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Vic Cole
Subj: gc electronics

 VC> competent scients out there
 VC> who know this, but are apparently so scared that Vice
 VC> President Gore will yank
 VC> their funding that they don't speak up.  Consider this:  the patents
for

Lets keep the conversations on topic. Thanks
moderator


--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #970 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 21 Oct 93  23:30:48
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Larry Reddom
Subj: Video blaster

 LR>   video demo and was very impressed, but I was also told after that the
 LR>   video was done with many toasters and not just one. Hey! want to buy

You were told wrong, anything done in the toaster demo can be done with ONE
toaster.  To get started??? depends on your budget...  if the skys the limit
get a new Amiga4000 and Toaster-4000.  If on a budget there are some SUPER
deals on 3000s and even 2500s.  I have a 4000 and still love my 2500.
If on a tight budget even a 2000 can do ok with the toaster... but some
things will drag - but still do the job!

So a user computer... 2000=400.00  2500=600.00  3000=800.00 (used)
You then need a large HD (those prices above generally will include one)
You need a toaster, new or used... you`ve seen the used prices. Anything
less then NEW is a great buy.  You could use it as is... even input LIVE
camera video into it... but to input TAPED video you will need a TBC (600.00
used)
More? [Y/n/c]               to input TWO video sources of any kind you will need TWO TBC`s.  (check out
Kitchen sync dual(2) TBC unit, new 1200.00 - used... 800-900.00.
It would be nice to have something to record with as well (a 2nd or 3rd deck)
And thats all folks the rest is gravy - DPAINT IV would be a good add on as
would ADPRO. Both graphics software programs.  Oh... and RGB monitor for the
amiga, and preview and program NTSC monitors. (couple small b/w source
monitors would be handy as well.



--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #971 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 22 Oct 93  20:40:00
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Sandy Simpson
Subj: Re: got It

 SS> I guess my question is ... is there a real PRO_VIDEO

Yes there is, Have your sysop turn on PRO_VIDEO if you like. This forem is
not for general video discussion.  It is the VIDEO-TOASTER echo. Thanks


--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #972 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 22 Oct 93  20:46:14
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Dave Wells
Subj: For anyone who is interested

 DW> I'll be attending a computer show tomorrow and Thursday
 DW> at which the Video Machine will be demo'd.  I've
 DW> already decided I don't want a Toaster, in light of the

So why are you here?  Why are you posting this?  This is the VIDEO-TOASTER
echo, your post is grossly off topic.

 DW> If anyone would like a report on the VM (or a
 DW> confirmation that it actually WORKS!) leave a message
 DW> to that effect.

Please do it elsewhere it is not welcome here.
Moderator.

(this is your 3rd off topic post in a row, I have sent a msg the bbs system
you post on, to have you removed from the echo if you can`t stay on topic.)
More? [Y/n/c]

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #973 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 22 Oct 93  22:24:50
From: Steven Bailey
  To: All
Subj: Anim Ouput (hi-end quality) f

* Original Area: Toastmsg
* Original From: Stephen Bailey (1:228/13)
* Original To  : All (1:228/13)

I am interested in options for outputing Lightwave Animations for use in
Film and Video. I currently use a Sony Hi-8 EVO-9650 Single Frame deck. The
deck works wonderfully, but the somewhat low 44db S/N level leaves me
wanting for more clarity. I get the feeling that my lovely framestores (752
X 480) are being cheated by the 400+ lines of resolution allowed by the Hi-8
format.
So, my question to any of you hi-end post production people is--what are
some options? I read that Ron Thornton of B5 fame used an Abekas Digital
Disk recorder to master his frames, later bumping them to D1 video for
cutting into the live action footage. That's a bit steep for a guy like me
with a toaster in his guest bedroom. I'm considering a less expensive option
like BetaCam SP or MII. But I am new to this type of pro gear and I'm hoping
More? [Y/n/c]               someone out there can let me in on what is what. Has anyone used re-writable
laser disc technology? If so, what kind of single frame control interface is
required? Any BetaCam experts out there? I'd love to here from you. I seek
technical as well as financial answers. Just how much does this stuff cost?
Thank you in advance for taking the time to help me.
By the way, these questions fall in the wake of a film I am producing as
part of my graduate thesis in Film and Video at Columbia here in Chicago. I
plan to combine live-action footage shot on Super-16 and transfered to
BetaCam for final editing and post EFX.

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #974 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: Fri 22 Oct 93  8:27
From: James Hastings-Trew
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: SAY IT!

In a message dated 19 Oct 93  12:20:53, Sam Kanter wrote:

 SK> message rather than -just- the medium is quite relevant. If Limbaugh
 SK> was using the Toaster to advocate death to certain minority groups,
 SK> do you think we should all cheer that he's using the Toaster?

The way you pose this question is inflammatory. Rush does not advocate the
death of anyone, and is neither racist nor facist. Have you ever watched the
show, or are you just going on what liberals tell you it is about?

 SK> I continually see wonderful technology used on TV for the most inane
 SK> and tasteless rubbish.  It does not make me happy, and I can't keep
 SK> quiet about it.  I personally believe Limbaugh is a dangerous man,
 SK> and this far outweighs my enjoyment of seeing his producers use the
 SK> Toaster on his show.

More? [Y/n/c]               A citizen excercising their right to free speech is "dangerous" and a man in
charge of your economy who has never had a real job in his life is a savior.
You sorta have things upside down. Anyway, this isn't the Limbaugh echo, and
I apologize for straying WAY off topic here. Rush's use of the Toaster is
good, I thought I would mention it, and I was sort-of afraid to mention his
name because I know that there are people out there who have never taken the
time to actually *think* about what he says who are quite willing to gang up
and silence the point of view he represents. Sad.


--- DLG Pro v1.0  /DLGMail
 * Origin: n (1:140/90)

Message Command:

Message #975 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: Wed 20 Oct 93 23:52
From: Jeff Dehaven
  To: Alan Chan
Subj: 35MM

 In a message Dated October 17th you stated that you cannot just plug a 35mm
film into your toaster.  Technically true- BUT have you ever heard of the
Polaroid CI-5000?  I used to play with those all the time when I used to
work at Davis Audio Visual here in Denver,  Excellent quality images can be
obtained with minimal resolution- even 640x400 looked halfway decent, though
the renderings I did at 3008x1920 were much cleaner.  Also- Whenever I
render a "Masterpiece" in either Imagine or Lightwave, I've never gotten a
filesize larger that 15megs.  Granted for just a minuite of film - a few
gigs and then some might be required for such a feat.  Also- I believe that
AntiGravity workshop sells a complete polaroid CI-5000 setup with the
required camera back to get to motion picture 35mm film.  With the standard
CI-5000 you can only do slides, 36exposures of film, overhead transparencies
and Prints (4x5)


--- DLG Pro v0.999/DLGMail
More? [Y/n/c]                * Origin: CYBERMIGA! Boulder, Colorado [phone] (1:104/121)

Message Command:

Message #976 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: Thu 21 Oct 93  0:00
From: Jeff Dehaven
  To: Moderator
Subj: Re: LW on a PC? ALL PC owners

 I read your message from awhile back about the PC's.  I have to agree
wholeheardedly- and not just as a Computer Graphic artist but as a computer
user in general-  I speak from experience by using the best of both
platforms and guess where the WORK GETS DONE --- _AMIGA_  Ive said it once
and I can say it many more times-  If I had the money I would love to have a
PC for the Games, its got great CD-Rom games, but when I want to get work
done- the Amiga is the only way to get anything accomplished.  Ive run
extensive tests on speed and such- A 50MHZ 486DX2 is actually SLOWER than my
28MHZ 040!  Especially in rendering- I had my Amiga 3000/040 next to a
486DX2 55, both running Imagine, and running the same scene- guess who won??

  I havent been able to find anything that measures Mips and Mflops on the
PC platform yet for a real test, but Ive got friends with absolute top of
the line PC's and I cant help but laugh when they run just a term program
and something else and windows is Hammering the drive for virtual memory....

More? [Y/n/c]
  Anyhow- just thought Id put my two cents worth in- and introduce myself-
Also to all users on here- I have been seriously considering putting up a
bulletin board system for complete and utter
Video/Videographer/3D-Animation/Objects galore board for Video Toaster
Freaks like all of us-  how many of these kinds o' boards are out there
allready??  The only one Ive heard of is Studio Amiga.


--- DLG Pro v0.999/DLGMail
 * Origin: CYBERMIGA! Boulder, Colorado [phone] (1:104/121)

Message Command:

Message #977 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: Thu 21 Oct 93  0:10
From: Jeff Dehaven
  To: All
Subj: Humans in 3D


     Just thought I would put in a word for probably the Most useful objects
I EVER bought!


  Recently I had a need for humans in 3D land, so I saw an ad for Humanoid
Animation Designer from AntiGrav workshop- so I bought it.  I must say- a
LOT of work went into these objects, and alot of work went into making these
objects VERY useful!  The set includes a Man, Man walking, Man Running,
Strong Man (Arnold lookin muscular kinda guy), Strong guy Running, Strong
guy walking, and a woman with the same envelopes.  Not only are the objects
VERY realistic- but they come with morph targets (seperate objects to morph
to in lightwave) for phoenemes and emotions- these objects can literaly be
made to REALISTICALY speak, and show such emotions and Anger, Fear, Sadness,
happiness, etc. etc...

More? [Y/n/c]                 These are excellent objects and AntiGrav isn't paying me to say this- just
thought I'd let you all in on a great set of objects for lightwave.

Also- when you register, they send you a child object and all the objects
contain the same amount of polygons so you can morph from child to woman to
man or whatever.




QUESTION:  Anyone on here used the Dynamic Motion Module?  It seems to be a
front end for lightwave that tries to implement object gravity and inverse
kinematics to a limited degree.  Anyone have it, used it, seen it- that can
relay some information on it?


--- DLG Pro v0.999/DLGMail
 * Origin: CYBERMIGA! Boulder, Colorado [phone] (1:104/121)

Message Command:

Message #978 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 22 Oct 93  12:07:47
From: Rob Ribar
  To: Moderator
Subj: LW on a PC? ALL PC owners REA

M> Remember guys - this is the Amiga/VIDEOTOSTER echo... let not let the
M> PC posts run rampant.  I just hope this helps some of you understand
M> the world of computing a bit better.  Get an amiga/toaster, you`ll be
M> glad you did.

        YES!  Finally someone who accurately explains the difference between
PCs and Amigas.  PC's are for business (ie: International BUSINESS machine)
uses, and even though the common business programs may be boring, they're
VERY essential for saving time and money!  I wouldn't even begin to do video
on a PC system, but only because of the price.  One thing I really hate is
to hear that PC systems aren't capable of doing video work similar to the
Toaster.  They are VERY capable but the price tag is high, which is one
reason I chose to get an A4000 with a Toaster 4000.  And I also agree that
PCs do not multitask well.  With the new PowerPC systems that are slowly
appearing, we'll finally see some true multitasking, but of course the price
will go with it.
More? [Y/n/c]                       Simply put Amigas are great for video and terrible for business.
Someone else said that if it were not for the Toaster, Amigas would long be
extict; I agree.  The business market has been eaten alive by the PC
standard.  I own and use both a PC and my Amiga.  I use the Amiga for the
Toaster and my PC for just about everything else.  I don't even know why
people bother to try to compare an Amiga with a PC, they're in two different
worlds and they BOTH have their advantages and disadvantages.

I really appreciated your comparison,

        -Rob

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3
 * Origin: PRIDE BBS - Tempe, AZ - XenoLink Z3a - 16.8k USR DS (1:114/215)

Message Command:

Message #979 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 23 Oct 93  08:35:40
From: Rich Koster
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: re: Toaster/PC

Hi Ron!

On Thursday, October 21st '93 you wrote to me:

 RK>  RK> I'm not the moderator here, Ron is, but I'm paying to receive
 RK>  RK> the messages here as are a lot of other people.  So please keep
 RK>  RK> in mind *what* we hooked up to this echo to read about, okay?
 RK>
 RK> Yeah - I`ve a bit guilty as well.

As Mel Brooks said, "It's *good* to be the King!"  ;-)

 RK> I`ll start enforcing it a bit more... that is having peoples links
 RK> cut to the echo who violate by posting off topic.

Uh-oh.  I'd better make *this* message on-topic by asking:
More? [Y/n/c]
Has anyone used the new third-party monitor adapter that lets you use
a multisync monitor with the Amiga 4000-Toaster 4000?  How good is it,
and do you think it is worth waiting for the Commodore version?

I *still* can't find the Commodore-made one locally, and haven't heard
of how to get it through mail order either.  Commodore Gold Service
told me I'd have to get it through my dealer.  My dealer said it is
on back order and he's heard nothing about it being out yet.

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #980 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 22 Oct 93  10:15:00
From: Scott Marlowe
  To: Scott Pessoni
Subj: Touch Screen-  Toaster To

SM> Their number is: 1-508-659-9000.  I do not know if they sell retail,
SM> as I buy from them wholesale.  Cost for a kit for a 7 to 14 inch
SM> monitor is around $800 installed, and 15 to 21 inch is another $150
SM> or so, including labor.  They also have a thing where they can make
SM> the screen a physical part of the CRT so that it is gas bonded to
SM> it.  Cannot be broken without actually breaking the CRT.  Runs about
SM> $3000 to $4000.

SP>Wow! Exspensive suckers! <g>  Do they have programes that interface or
SP>some thing that you can program so you can use it on the TOASTERS
SP>switcher?

They come with interface software that allows you to emulate the amiga's
mouse in several different ways, from single point, to draggable, to
running menus etc...  I have a friend who runs a kiosk with one, and
we got so used to using the touchsreen to do almost everything, that
More? [Y/n/c]               when we were programming on his second machine, we kept touching the
screen to get things done.  Since that machine didn't have a touchscreen,
it didn't work too well ;^)  That $800 is the fully installed price,
BTW, from a retailer.  That includes the labor of opening a 1942 and
putting the screen in and all the other stuff.


 * AmiQWK 1.2 *


--- DlgQWK v0.71a/DLGMail
 * Origin: CYBERMIGA! Boulder, Colorado [phone] (1:104/121)

Message Command:

Message #981 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 22 Oct 93  16:07:33
From: Otis F. Ivie
  To: All
Subj: Toaster and the big C=

I talked to some fairly inept and snotty 'Customer Service' type today at
Newtek.  I called to find out if they were doing anything on the Mousepads
they promised us for registering.  The gal said she was working on them as
fast as she could but had no idea when she would be caught up.  I think
asked her if she knew if C= had processed any of the $100 rebates and she
indicated that that promotion was over and dead and that they never sent out
the $100 nor did they intend to.  I then asked someone to authorize the
return of the Toaster for credit, but she could not get me to anyone with
such authority.  Someone is supposed to call me back?
Has anyone gotten this refund?  Maybe a class-action suit is in order.

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.4w
 * Origin: Mouse Trap * Serving Amigas Since 1987 * 619-464-2134 (1:202/122)

Message Command:

Message #982 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: Sat 23 Oct 93 21:06
From: Nancy Kowall
  To: All
Subj: "LightWave PRO"

What do guys think of the new 'newsletter/tutorial' from AVID- seems a bit
steep for 15 or so pages ($48 for 12 months IF you subscribe to VTU- $72 if
not. I liked the first issue but....   $$$$$$$$$$$


--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Mike's Video House - Glendale, CA 818-240-1593 (1:102/852)

Message Command:

Message #983 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 23 Oct 93  15:20:18
From: Scott Pessoni
  To: Michael W. Towe
Subj: Toaster 4000 Demo A/B Roll

 MWT>         Thanx for the info. I am using a future video
 MWT> product as my edit controler right now, unfortunatly I
 MWT> am not to happy with it. I am realy trying to get away
 MWT> from IBM's I am tired of fighting IRQ conflicts :-)

You are? <g>  I was planing on buying it... I guess I won't!  Someone else
told me that it was just a GPI trigger... Well I thank you! :)
        -Scott


--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: Treasure Island =HST/DS= 203-791-8532 (1:141/730)

Message Command:

Message #984 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 22 Oct 93  14:17:47
From: Sam Kanter
  To: Scott Pessoni
Subj: Re: TOASTER 4000 DEMO A/B ROL

>Really?  Can you give me a phone number of the place that makes that or some
info?

Amilink is made by RGB Computer and video, [phone].  They are in West
Palm Beach, Florida.
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link/TBBS/TIMS [phone] 4-Lines
(1:2603/303)

Message Command:

Message #985 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 22 Oct 93  15:14:09
From: Sam Kanter
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: Re: TOASTER AND VIDEO MIS

Re. Autohue problem: I should add that the problem started when I installed
Toaster 3.0. I had no problems with 2.0.  This makes me think it's not a
hardware problem...
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link/TBBS/TIMS [phone] 4-Lines
(1:2603/303)

Message Command:

Message #986 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 22 Oct 93  15:23:01
From: Sam Kanter
  To: Scott Pessoni
Subj: Y/C AND COMPONENT

This entire issue is confusing and has been made even more muddy by Newtek
who claims that Y/C output is not important for the Toaster.

I was under the impression that once a signal goes to composite, any Y/C in
the chain becomes irrelevant, so that Toaster users have to lose ALL the
benefit of Y/C camcorders and decks when they use the Toaster.

Am I wrong?
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link/TBBS/TIMS [phone] 4-Lines
(1:2603/303)

Message Command:

Message #987 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 22 Oct 93  22:58:04
From: Chris Westfall
  To: John Donlevie <Received>
Subj: Toaster/PC

 >> It would seem to me, if the Video Toaster didn't exist, the Amiga  would
 >> have dried up a long time ago.
 >>
 >> It is basically dead for all other purposes in comparison to the PC,  and
 >> even the MAC.
 >>
 >> --- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 >>  * Origin: OS/2 Brings DOS sales to its knees! (1:141/270)
 JD> Hate to admit it, but that IBM user is probaby right, thank god for the
 JD> toaster. anyway withh A5000 look for a merging of technology and Amiga
 JD> DOS on "IBM" machines in the next two years if C= makes it that long.


    I suppose your argument that C= owes it's continued existence on the
Toaster applies equally well to IBM machines as well.  I guess they should
get on their knees and pray to Bill Gates and Lotus and Word Perfect as
More? [Y/n/c]               well. None of these machines are anything more than a door stop without the
software to support them. MS-DOS machines would have had just as hard a time
as anything else out there if they didn't have roots in business at the
time computers were becoming commonplace.  The operating system became the
standard  for use allowing compatability with other machines using the same
operating system. That doesn't make it a better machine, just a more common
one. It doesn't preclude other platforms from being successful or prevent
them from being used in a professional capacity.  If Amiga Dos and MS-DOS
were compatable, you may see more Amigas sold than Clones especially in the
areas where the Amiga has a hardware advantage.
   Clones enjoy a large market share in N. America because they were adapted
as the industry standard here.  In Europe, other platforms occupy the
majority position because they didn't have MS-DOS rammed down their throat
like folks do here.  If you don't think that's the case then show your
average neophyte an Amiga or Atari or some other make of computer and see if
he's impressed by the graphics and sound. Then tell him it's not IBM
compatible and see if he's interested in getting one. Even if he knows
nothing else about computers, he'll balk at it not being compatible. The
Amiga enjoys it's success today for a lot of reasons and although the
Toaster is a great and powerful product, it's not the whole reason for the
Amiga's existance.  There are other video and graphics tools out there as
well and someone would have developed a product just as good as the toaster
More? [Y/n/c]               if Newtek hadn't, they just got there first. The Amiga was built around the
video standard from day one, Newtek didn't do that. The Amiga has been
around for a long time and C= even longer. The C64 was the most successful
computer in the world and it was the ingenuity of C= that made a powerful
and versatile computer that did that, not some 3rd party maker. The fact
that C= is still around is a testament to the equipment because there is no
denying C='s ineptitude as a business.  I hope they get it together because
I'd hate to see this marvelous technology go down the drain.


 JD> --- MEBBSNet 0.131
 JD>  * Origin: Phila. Amiga Users' Group BBS 215-551-6113/1120
 JD> (1:273/912.0)

Chris Westfall

--- Spot 1.2a Unreg.
 * Origin: Chris' BBS Nanaimo, B.C. (1:351/230.0)

Message Command:

Message #988 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 23 Oct 93  17:28:00
From: Mike Nielsen
  To: All
Subj: 040 meets LW 3.0--YAHOOOO!

Well, I finally got my whole 2000-040 system up yesterday.  Loaded the
"Field" scene with the chess pieces, turned off the field rendering, and let
it rip-- 1 min and 7 secs.  All right!
It was strange.  I had the Progressive Peripherals 040 board in and I was
rendering things but that same scene took over 7 minutes.  Then I got hold
of the latest software for the 040 board and whammo...Things sped up very
quickly.  I guess I must have not really been using the full 040 hardware
before I put the new software into place.  Now I see why I bought the
Toaster upgrade.
As Eric Flom says: Keep on toastin.

 * Wave Rider 0.37 Beta *
... What's that smell--there must be a rendering farm around here.
---
 * Origin: Theorem Beach, Viola, DE  (1:2600/140)

Message Command:

Message #989 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 23 Oct 93  19:01:00
From: Eric Fleischer
  To: Steven Bailey
Subj: Re: Anim Ouput (hi-end q

SB> I am interested in options for outputing Lightwave
SB> Animations for use in Film and Video. I currently use a
SB> ...
SB> I read that Ron Thornton of B5 fame used an Abekas
SB> Digital Disk recorder to master his frames, later bumping
SB> them to D1 video for cutting into the live action footage.
SB> That's a bit steep for a guy like me with a toaster in his
SB> guest bedroom.

  You're right about that. Heap big buck, like with 6 figures.

SB> I'm considering a less expensive option like
SB> BetaCam SP or MII.

  No question you will get much better quality from BetaCam SP or M-II. I
use a Panasonic AU-65H for single frame recording, with the Personal SFC
More? [Y/n/c]               for the single frame controller, and have had excellent results.
  A caveat on the BetaCam SP decks, though. When we were first looking into
a component format setup, we originally looked at the Sony PVW series (and
the equivalent BTS decks). We very specifically asked the Sony rep about
single frame recording, and were told that Sony does not recommend the PVW
series decks for single frame recording. The transport is not durable
enough for that use." I can only assume that the new UVW series Beta decks,
which are even cheaper, will be similarly unsuited.
  I asked the Panasonic rep, and they said that single frame recording is
no problem.
  One catch, is that the output from the Toaster is composite, even though
it is a very good, high bandwidth composite. You get chroma crawl and
similar composite artifacts recorded onto your component tape when you use
the Toaster as the display device. I have on order a Nova X-Coder-2 ($600
list) which transcodes RGB to Y/R-Y/B-Y, and I'll prolly use that and a
24bit RGB display board like a Firecracker for my recording.

SB> Has anyone used re-writable laser disc technology? If
SB> so, what kind of single frame control interface is
SB> required?

  I used a WORM laser disk (Panasonic TQ-3031F). It was very quick and
More? [Y/n/c]               worked well. But, it (like most laser recorders) is a color-under recorder,
and will not get you the greatest chroma resolution. Its also very
expensive, and very fragile.

<ELF> aka Dr Gandalf, Amiga animator.
[e-mail]


... If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?

 * Q-Blue v0.7 *
--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: * MetroNet * Columbia, MD * 6 Gigs * (1:261/1137)

Message Command:

Message #990 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 23 Oct 93  10:34:58
From: Don Pope
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: Re: Learning How To Dress You

In a message of <21-Oct-93 23:36:34> Rich Koster (1:390/5.10) wrote:

 JD>> Lets get to theother nightmare of yesterdays edit, the page turn that
 JD>> I have given thisclient for the last 5 shows, she was ready to ream
 JD>> me when I told her "sorrynot this time..."

 RK> I don't know what you are referring to there, John.  Even in the
 RK> pre-release dealer version of the Toaster's 3.0 software the page turn
 RK> wipe worked flawlessly.

     Hi Rich.... actually, while John was ridiculously negative (why do
these guys buy and keep Toasters, anyway? :)), he did have a legitimate
complaint about the page turn - IF he is using 3.0 on an A2000.  Of course
the AGA version doesn't work, but loading in the "2.0.NEW" project does give
you the old page turn effect - sort of.  It seems that immediately after the
page wipe, the original image is popped back up.  Very annoying, and it
More? [Y/n/c]               requires making an extra insert edit to get rid of the unwanted image.

 RK> You do have an Amiga 4000, don't you?

    That would solve the problem... but he may be like me... I've got a
fully decked out 2000 (much faster than a 4000, btw :)). For now, I've got
to put income into upgrading the video side instead of the computer side
(well not entirely - it's hard to resist some of the new products like the
Dynamic Motion Module for LW! [yeah, I ordered it. Should be here end of the
month - I hope they didn't take marketing lessons from OpalVision or Digital
Creations (Brilliance)... that RSN stuff gets real old, real fast]).

Amigaly,
.Don.
---
 * Origin: inSaNiTY- [HST/DS] (1:3815/101.2)

Message Command:

Message #991 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 23 Oct 93   0:47:11
From: J. Moore
  To: Hammed Malik
Subj: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

HM> (the one that can be seen in the layout section) were in full colour.  I
HM> guess it would slow down screen updates too much on current Amigas
HM> though.  I am not familiar with Alias software.  How does it handle
HM> this?  What makes it more 'powerful, useful and easy to use'?

Well, I was just talking about the one feature so I'll confine myself to
that.  The things I like the best about it (that I'd love to see
available on Amiga programs) are 1) full color, of course, which is not
only nicer but makes it much easier to position objects.  But more
importantly, it makes it real easy to see where the shadows are in your
background picture, so you can more easily position your
shadow-generating light(s) for your 3D objects.  For placing
computer-generated objects in a real-life scene, this is terrific.  It
eliminates a lot of trial and error so your productivity goes way up.
2) The next thing I like is how you do the surface and the
shadow-catchers, which you need to get your cg shadows into the picture.
More? [Y/n/c]               These surfaces are completely transparent except to shadows.  You make
one, then simply grab the corners one by one and tack them down.  (They
retain their shape as you do so.)  Putting a shadow-catching surface onto
a real background surface (typically in a photo) is really quick and very
simple -- no adjustments and rechecking, you just do it and it's right.
That saves time.  In the same way, when you put your object(s) onto the
surface, you just plunk them down, no fiddling or fine-tuning needed.
then you move them around on the surface just as you would with LW (in LW
you'd turn off one movement-axis to keep it on the surface).

My point is that you can do this with most any Amiga 3D program, but you
have to a lot more fiddling and fine-tuning; if we had an Alias-style
feature on our programs, it would save a lot of fiddling around time.
Not to mention that wretched feeling you get when you're rushed and don't
get it quite right and notice it only after you've rendered.

HM> Sorry for labeling you an Opalmaniac :^)  Its just that most
HM> Toaster/Lightwave bashers tend to be Opal enthusiasts.  I think I'll
HM> pass on the lithium.

Oh, I've got an Opal board and I'm sure glad I never have to touch
Toaster Paint.  Actually, I've always noticed the opposite: Opal-bashing
More? [Y/n/c]               by Toaster types.  Guess it's like when you buy a green Mazda and
you start noticing others til it seems like EVERYONE is driving green
Mazdas.

HM> You still haven't said why you like to put down Lightwave all the time.
HM> I find it the most useful 3D program I've ever used and don't need to
HM> bash other programs to prove Lightwave's worth.

I don't put down LW.  I DO point out that it isn't perfect, that some
programs have features that LW lacks (like Aladdin's wonderful waves --
and no, LW's wave surface isn't ANYWHERE near as configureable,
positionable, or, well, let's just leave it at it would be nice if LW had
it.  I spent a lot of time recently doing things the hard way because the
LW feature I wanted to use doesn't exist.  Unfortunately, you can't just
dump all the best features from the different programs together; it sure
would be nice if you could.

I do also point out that "uses the Toaster" and "uses Lightwave" are not
really interchangeable phrases.  I think that when someone asks if the
Toaster capable of professional output and and is obviously referring to
the whole Toaster (we'll ignore TPaint here) ie. switcher, genlock, and
character generator, and someone replies with examples of TV LIGHTWAVE
More? [Y/n/c]               use, they are being either innocently or deliberately disingenuous, and
certainly not particularly helpful in their answers.  I think that
disingenuous answers should be left to a company's ad copywriters, and
that users should be rather more helpful and honest, instead of sounding
like PR flacks, don't you?

In fact, the ironic thing about the Toaster is that the most professional
part of it is LW, which is generally the thing video people want and need
least.  A small-business video person, esp., often wants editing control,
which isn't included with the Toaster (and oddly underrepresented on
Amigas, considering their video-orientation).

Now the worst part of it is that statements like I have made here are
often viewed as attacks on Newtek.  So someone thinking about Amigas as
video equipment ask a question and only get wild tangental answers
without specifics.  Instead of being sold by these responses, we seem to
trying to show them that Amiga users as a whole (and Toaster users
especially) are nutty and not well informed about other platforms.  Well,
okay, some are nutty and not well informed, but not all.  We drive them
away from the platform; if they buy, it's often in spite of us instead of
because we know what we're talking about.  I think that's a shame, don't
you?
More? [Y/n/c]
We've got a great cost-effective platform with great cost-effective
software and hardware (the Toaster is part of that, although you have to
rank the components if you're giving an accurate rating -- from lowest
[TPaint] through the middle [switcher, cg, and genlock] to highest [LW]).
But when we claim that LW is better than things like SoftImage and (SGI
version) Alias, instead of pointing out that it's really good and A WHOLE
HECK OF A LOT CHEAPER, we sound like fools who have no idea what we're
talking about.  If we claim that (money aside) an Amiga is as good as a
quarter-million dollar SGI RE, we sound like idiots.

My point: Isn't reality good enough?  Boy, I sure think so.

Maybe if our Toaster accolytes were less fawning and more critical (which
does NOT necessarily mean negative) vis a vis Newtek, we'd have an index
for our manuals.  I think 4 months is more than long enough, don't you?

 * Q-Blue v0.7 [NR]
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #992 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 22 Oct 93  05:00:00
From: DAVID BUCHANAN
  To: ALL
Subj: TRADE

Anybody interested in a trade????

I have a A2000 2meg 512K Agnes
2091 controller w/ 40 meg drive
Genlock 2000
EasyL drawing tablet
Progressive frame grabber
XT bridgeboard w/ 5 1/4
1084s monitor
Perfect sound

I would like to trade for a Toaster 2.0 w/lightwave.

Does this sound like a good deal?????

leave Message
More? [Y/n/c]
Would add cash for a Toaster 3.0

Thanx

Dave Buchanan





 ** UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY - PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHAREWARE CONCEPT **
---
 | AmiQWK 2.1 | "Age before beauty, pearls before swine." -- Tom Servo

 * Q-Blue 0.93 [NR] *

--- GOMail v1.2 [BETA] [DEMO] 11-14-93
 * Origin: Digital EFX! * 817-588-2915 * Amiga Specific * V.32B (1:130/813)

Message Command:

Message #993 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 24 Oct 93  09:24:18
From: Rich Koster
  To: J. Moore
Subj: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

Hi J.!

On Friday, October 22nd '93 you wrote to Peter Greci:

 JM> Oh yeah.  If you do it, don't forget to change the positions of all
 JM> your objects to make sure they fit your custom screen.

Or simply put the pointer in the middle of the Limited Region box and
drag it to where your objects are...  Either way you find easier works.
;-)

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #994 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 26 Oct 93  09:20:15
From: Kenneth Gunton
  To: Scott Pessoni
Subj: Re: Y/C Signal?  Is it realy

If you want to use Y/C, probably the best thing for you to do would be
to get a Y/C Plus board, and a Feral TBC, The Feral TBC handles both
Y/C and composit, and the Y/C Plus board has been recommended by
Newtek for users who want to get the maximum out of their Toaster. By
using both, you will get the highest possible quality processing.
--- Star-Net v1.02
 * Origin: ToasterPro BBS. 215-356-7442 14.4 24hrs (1:273/320.0)

Message is reply to #943.

Message Command:

Message #995 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 26 Oct 93  09:26:03
From: Kenneth Gunton
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: Y/C AND COMPONENT

If you use the Y/C Plus Board, and the Feral TBC, you will be
pleasantly surprised at the output quality. Both boards work extremely
well together, and are recommended by Newtek. Any questions, you can
call 800-331-2019 and speak to one of the Feral engineers. Mention my
name, and you'll get right through.
--- Star-Net v1.02
 * Origin: ToasterPro BBS. 215-356-7442 14.4 24hrs (1:273/320.0)

Message is reply to #986.

Message Command:

Message #996 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 24 Oct 93  15:13:03
From: Dave Wells
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Apology for off-topic posts .

Sorry for the off-topic posts.  When I started reading this forum, there
wasn't too much mention of it.  The board I use doesn't have the PRO_VIDEO
echo, but I will ask the Sysop to add it.  I shall restrict myself to
reading
other posts if I have nothing to say about the Toaster.

--- T.A.G. 2.6f2a Beta
 * Origin: The Music Connection (1:106/1000)

Message Command:

Message #997 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 24 Oct 93  20:23:21
From: Rich Koster
  To: Don Pope
Subj: re: Toaster 3.0/2.0 Page Turn

Hi Don!

On Saturday, October 23rd '93 you wrote to me:

 DP>  RK> I don't know what you are referring to there, John.  Even in the
 DP>  RK> pre-release dealer version of the Toaster's 3.0 software the page
 DP>  RK> turn wipe worked flawlessly.
 DP>
 DP>      Hi Rich.... actually, while John was ridiculously negative (why do
 DP> these guys buy and keep Toasters, anyway? :)), he did have a legitimate
 DP> complaint about the page turn - IF he is using 3.0 on an A2000.  Of
 DP> course the AGA version doesn't work, but loading in the "2.0.NEW"
 DP> project does give you the old page turn effect - sort of.  It seems
 DP> that immediately after the page wipe, the original image is popped back
 DP> up.  Very annoying, and it requires making an extra insert edit to get
 DP> rid of the unwanted image.
More? [Y/n/c]
Thanks for filling me in.  I don't have my Toaster running in an A2000,
so I didn't know that.

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #998 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 24 Oct 93  04:37:11
From: Hammed Malik
  To: J. Moore
Subj: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

Hello J,

Thanks for the info on background images in Alias s/w.

JM>Oh, I've got an Opal board and I'm sure glad I never have to touch
JM>Toaster Paint.  Actually, I've always noticed the opposite:
JM>Opal-bashing by Toaster types.  Guess it's like when you buy a green
JM>Mazda and

I also owned an OpalVision board and really enjoyed using OpalPaint.  I
had to get rid of it so I could plug in a T4000.  The ability to use
lightwave and the composite output made the decision easy.  I missed
OpalPaint until I got ImageFX 1.5.  While its not quite as fast as
OpalPaint in some functions (spray paint) the results in AGA are
outstanding.

More? [Y/n/c]               +++
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #999 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 24 Oct 93  14:51:11
From: Mark Woollard
  To: All
Subj: SunRize Card & Toaster

Has anyone with a Toaster setup been using the Sunrize audio card?
I've been doing a lot of video stuff with my setup but now need to raise
my sound editing capabilities. I'm especially interested in hearing how
easy it is to synch the sound with video, especially when using Toaster
transition effects.  I understandthat there's a Toaster compatibility
option.  How well does it work?  Are there any compatibility issues with
the Toaster 4000?
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #1000 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 24 Oct 93   6:49:11
From: J. Moore
  To: J Eric Chard
Subj: Re: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

JEC>        Lightwave 2.0 (that's TWOpointZERO) also did 3D object morphing,
JEC> which I believe was out (and actually useable/useful) long before
JEC> Aladdin4D.

At least *Rich* can take a little teasing for forgetting about 2.0's
object morphing.  Oh well...

JEC>        BTW, what is happening w/A4d?  My >>impression<< is that the
JEC> user
JEC> interface sucked so bad that nobody can do anything useful with it.  It
JEC> seems serious users (animators that actually want to make a living, not
JEC> flog some thread on the nets) gravitate to LW.  I have noticed that all
JEC> reviews for A4d (especially by that bootlicker from some community
JEC> college
JEC> in New England)  REALLY gloss over the modeling aspect of A4d.  Does it
JEC> even HAVE a modeler?
More? [Y/n/c]
No, it's not the interface that's the problem, although a lot of people
who've used other programs don't like it.  I don't find the interface to
be a big problem, but I don't think it's great, either.  It just tried to
be a sort of 3D DPaint, which is a reasonable thing to try, but 3D is a
lot more complex than paint, so a setup with text-labelled buttons is
better, I think.

I find LW's output much better; its anti-aliasing is better even at the
lower settings.  LW also loads scenes much faster, which is very useful
for productivity.  A4D's modeller is very nice, thank you (I haven't used
LW's modeller enough to give you direct comparisons here).  Several
things I like about A4D's modeller are multiple levels of group
selection, and its hide feature, and the alternate spaces (like spare or
jump screens in DPaint).

The gaseous objects are nice but can be very complex.  They're terrific
for realistic flames -- better than I've seen with Essense textures, for
instance.  What I really like the most and would like to see in LW (to
keep this on-topic) are:

1) an index for the damn manual.  It's been 4 months, Newtek!  Is it that
More? [Y/n/c]               damned hard?

(Sorry, but if I had delivered my Unix manual to my publisher without an
index, well...Maybe if we ALL complained?)

2) Waves.  I love the way A4D does waves.  First off, everything in the
program can be timelined during animations; that includes waves.  So it's
easy to make them fade in and out, etc. etc. etc.  You can also place
them (as many as you want) anywhere you want.  So if you want to have,
let's say, a 3-legged object touch down on a wet surface, you just stick
wave-generating polys at the points where the legs touch the surface.
You can also make the wave(s) round or straight (or multiple, if you want
one wave-generating poly to create a raindrops effect).  Now this doesn't
seem like it would be hard to add to LW, so maybe they will.  (But then
writing an index for the manual in 4 months doesn't seem so hard either.)

3) Textures.  Too much to mention.  They can be changed any which way.
The nicest parts which could be easily added to LW are loading in JPEGs
automatically and using DCTV pictures as textures (as well as any other
Amiga image formats, of course).

Well, I'm gonna stop there.  The more rabid guys (mostly south of the
More? [Y/n/c]               border, I'm sad to say) start foaming if you say anything nice about
anything not made by Newtek.  Speaking of which, another nice thing about
A4D has been that, even though they're a small company, I haven't run
across any bugs in the program.  On the other hand, in LW, the Modeller
screws up beveling of text unless you make it double-sided polys and
then convert it to single-sided.  That seems like a pretty bad screw-up,
what with all the flying-logo work that LW users do.  I'm a bit worried
what else I'll find if they let something THAT basic by them.  I also
hope their rumored plan to make even the bug-fixes for LW "T4000 only"
is not true.

Of course, I guess officially Toaster software never has bugs, right.
Just like Microsoft.

 * Q-Blue v0.7 [NR]
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #1001 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 24 Oct 93   6:13:11
From: J. Moore
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: Video blaster

 LR>   video demo and was very impressed, but I was also told after that the
 LR>   video was done with many toasters and not just one. Hey! want to buy

RK> You were told wrong, anything done in the toaster demo can be done with
RK> ONE  toaster.  To get started??? depends on your budget...

ONE Toaster and a WHOLE LOT of expensive cameras and decks.  But anyone
should be aware of that when they're looking at demos.  (Anyone's demos.)

RK> So a user computer... 2000=400.00  2500=600.00  3000=800.00 (used)

Not even used for that 3000.  I just got mine (new 5 MB ram, 120 MB HD)
for C$849, which is US$646.

 * Q-Blue v0.7 [NR]
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
More? [Y/n/c]                * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #1002 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 24 Oct 93  12:10:01
From: Don Pope
  To: Jim Alexander
Subj: Re: lightwave 3D

In a message of <20-Oct-93 13:53:01> Jim Alexander (1:342/24) wrote:

 JA> I'm still fairly inexperienced and puttering around, and have what may
 JA> sound like a stupid question.

   Jim, there are no stupid questions..... just stupid people when they
don't ask about what they don't know. :) So, ask away, there are lots of
helpful people in this echo.

 JA> Is there any clip-art or animation scene files out there? Public
 JA> domain or otherwise?

   Yes, there are lots of ready-made files and utilities for the Toaster
user - for all the different croutons. I hesitate to mention names not
knowing exactly what you are looking for.  I'd suggest you get a copy of
Video Toaster User magazine because it has a lot of advertisements for such
More? [Y/n/c]               things.  There will also be a special December issue of VTU that will be
available to subscribers that will have a listing of Toaster related
hardware and software.  AmigaWorld is supposed to have an article about
Toaster products next month as well.
   Another source of files would be a good Toaster BBS.  Studio Amiga (if
you can get in :)) is an excellent choice. (#817-557-2111).  Ron (the
moderator of this echo) will no doubt :) suggest you call his board as he
has lots of Toaster files. (#616-791-2109).  You might also call the Amiga
Asylum BBS and request the World-Wide Amiga BBS List (#508-372-2258) and see
if there aren't some Amiga BBSes nearer to you.
   If you'd like to post what type of files you are looking for, I'm sure
that there are people in this echo who can give you specific names of files
and companies you could check out.

Amigaly,
.Don.



---
 * Origin: inSaNiTY- [HST/DS] (1:3815/101.2)

Message Command:

Message #1003 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 25 Oct 93  00:11:11
From: Hammed Malik
  To: J Eric Chard
Subj: Re: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

Hello Eric,

A while back, you posted a listing of your ARexx script for 'enhanced
bounding boxes'.  Apprently there was an update to it since the first
one didn't work.  Will you be posting it on this conference?  I have
been working on some particle animation macros and will be posting them
when I am done.

later...
HM
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #1004 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 24 Oct 93  10:06:05
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Eric Fleischer
Subj: Re: Pixel Dissolve- HOW?

  *In a message dated 21 Oct 93  14:12:00 Eric Fleischer writes:

EF>     The way that I'd do it, since there isn't a pixel dissolve
EF> operator, is
EF> to use an alpha channel controlled dissolve with FRED. Make
EF> yourselve a series of 8bit greyscale IFFs to use as an alpha channel
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
        Well, Doc, that was kinda what I was trying to avoid, the hand
creation of the alpha mask.
        For just ONE length of dissolve, hand creation is ok.  But I'd like
to create pixel dissolves of varying durations.
        One way of doing it would be to ask the user how many frames the
dissolve must cover.  Divide each line into segments which are have as
many pixels as the number of frames.  Put one pixel randomly into each
segment on each frame, so by the last frame each segment should be full.
        The sticking point for me in programming this in AREXX is how to
More? [Y/n/c]               find the last empty pixel.  With a stupid algorithm it would be slower and
slow.  Worley said the thing to do is generate hash lists, and just run
down the list.  I could probably get away with just a few lists, mayby one
more than the # of segments in each line so they wouldn't stack up.  Worley
even sent me some code to generate these list, but I don't really read C
and so it is of limited use until I can decipher it.

EF>each frame masking the next step in your pixel dissolve, and use the FRED
EF> composite sequencer with alpha control. You can use a sequence of
EF> frames or a single frame of, say, key blue as the target sequence.
EF>
EF>     <ELF> aka DrGandalf

             PS, with initials like that, I'm surprised your handle isn't
Celeborn or Elron!


*FSED91j*
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #1005 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 24 Oct 93  10:33:09
From: J Eric Chard
  To: John Donlevie <Received>
Subj: Toaster keying=Bad

  *In a message dated 21 Oct 93  11:06:08 John Donlevie writes:

JD> operations SUCK. What are these? Foremost on the list is the
JD> extremely simple task of keying a title on the lower third. this in
JD> REAL television should be smooth and unobtrusive. The Toaster damn
JD> near cuts it on, this is not smooth andunobtrusive. My client damn
JD> near shot me! I had to load 2.0 on the downstream toaster to get a
JD> slower key dissolve (and rebuild all of my lower thirds...thats TV

        Just to back John up here, although I hardly ever use the Toaster
in an edit situation, my friend with the Beta AB system has been screaming
and kvetching about the keying on the Toaster from day 1.  So it is a
legitamate bitch.

JD> worse. Lets get to theother nightmare of yesterdays edit, the page
JD> turn that I have given thisclient for the last 5 shows, she was
More? [Y/n/c]               JD> ready to ream me when I told her "sorrynot this time, seems the new
JD> software sucks...".

        Now that's surprising.  You're saying the same effect doesn't work
anymore?  In what way?

JD> These are two basicfeatures that we had before,
JD> with the Newtek reputation for quality on theline, why was this
JD> rushed out with these BASIC flaws/bugs?

        I have a question:  Have you WRITTEN NewTek about these concerns?
Not called, not e-mailed, but WRITTEN?  I became a beta-tester by
methodically complaining and suggesting on a regular basis.  My buddies at
the editting shop complain all the time, but can't be bothered to take 10
minutes out to actually send a letter.

        You gotta remember, NewTek probably does a lot less editing than
you do.

        As from me, I think the new SAVE-FRAMESTORE methodology is stupid.
What was once a 1-screen solution is now a real bother.  AND the fact that
you can't use the damn keypad to designate a FS#, which would be consistant
More? [Y/n/c]               with the rest of the interface and a damn sight easier than using the mouse
to increment the little counter.

        Fortunately , I'm in LWave 99% of the time.


*FSED91j*
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #1006 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 5)
Date: 24 Oct 93  17:37:34
From: Michael Butler
  To: All
Subj: VIDEO AND ANIMATION MIX

I don't own a toaster but I was speculating on the uses of it to mix
live action and animation:

1. I was wondering if the max resolution of video imported into the
toaster was limited by the video source (whatever the camera/VTR res)
or by the toaster (does it max out at some point?).

2. Can anyone guess how the original video will look once it's been
through the toaster and outputted to a film recorder?  Video and film
normally have a very different look, of course, but I don't know how
digitally manipulating the image will affect it.  Will it (and the
background animation) look filmed? (as opposed to filming a
standard video source, which looks like projected video.)

3. How clean does live-action mix with animation on the toaster?  Some
of what I saw on the demo tape looks okay, but some of it looked like
More? [Y/n/c]               Willard Scott were he to wear a blue suit in front of the blue screen.
Can the inputted video be manipulated to conform more with the
animation (shadows, matching the tone, etc.)

Thanks in advance,

M.J.

 * 1st 1.11 #2055 *
--- Renegade v07-17 Beta
 * Origin: Goldfinger's --  Houston, TX  --  [phone] (1:106/604)

Message Command:

Message #1007 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 25 Oct 93  23:06:28
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: got It

  *In a message dated 20 Oct 93  23:53:28 Ron Kramer writes:

RK> Please keep your posts on topic here `VIDEO-TOASTER`.  This and your
RK> last about FILM/WARLOCK were off topic.  There is a AMIGA_VIDEO echo
RK> for posts about morph+ and amiga graphics.  Thanks-

        Ronald, the "Warlock" thread was about Lwave morphing.  Does that
not qualify as Toaster related?

PSYSFA


*FSED91j*
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #1008 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 25 Oct 93  23:25:09
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Jeff Dehaven
Subj: Re: Humans in 3D

  *In a message dated Thu 21 Oct 93  0:10 Jeff Dehaven writes:

JD>
JD>      Just thought I would put in a word for probably the Most useful
JD> objects
JD> I EVER bought!
JD>      (enthusiastic review deleted)

        Jeff, thanks for posting this mini-review-  It is much more
informative than the rather sparse data AGWrkshp puts in their ads.  I'll
probably buy these objects now that I know more about them.

JD> QUESTION:  Anyone on here used the Dynamic Motion Module?  It seems
JD> to be a front end for lightwave that tries to implement object
JD> gravity and inverse kinematics to a limited degree.  Anyone have it,
JD> used it, seen it- that can relay some information on it?
More? [Y/n/c]
        Can't say for sure, but heard rumors it's not released yet,
although ad of course are out there.  By the time you read this it may be
shipping.

w


*FSED91j*
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #1009 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 26 Oct 93  02:16:22
From: Mark Weiss
  To: Moderator
Subj: LW on a PC? ALL PC owners REA

 M> Ive been biting my tounge on all this TOASTER/LW to PC stuff but I can`t
 M> any longer.   Its like this guys - the PC don`t cut it.

And I've been "lurking" around this echo and can no longer keep quiet after
reading this..


 M> something very special.  I was like you back in the
 M> early 80s... I paid 2300.00 bucks for a 4.77 mzh PC...
 M> later 4000.00 for a 8mzh 286, then 6000.00 for a compaq
 M> 386/20.  I always had a state of the art PC system...


I paid $895 for my first PC 8088, $795 for my first '286 and $2995 for my
first '486 when it was a new thing to own. You have paid far too much for
very little machine.
More? [Y/n/c]
 M> I found I now couldn`t stand to use the PCs.

 M> One main reason is the AMIGA OS MULTITASKS - yea I have
 M> Deskview, and Windows386... but the AMIGA REALLY

Have you ever run LINUX, OS/2 2.1 or NT? Apparently not.


 M> machine when compared to the PC.  It does have its week points, I
dislike
 M> the Amigas handling of HDs...  and even though there are
 M> a couple great database programs on the Amiga this is
 M> the one area of nearly non-exsistant software.  So I use

I don't enjoy working on any machine that can't display workstation
resolution graphics. I'm enjoying 1280x1024x24-bit color on a 21" NEC 6FG
monitor right now. I can play back animations of network quality at 800x600
resolution and still download a file in the background, watching both
activities side-by-side on the same monitor. The animation playback is 30fps
and looks better than the stuff I saw last year coming off a UNIX
workstation. We're using RenderMan shaders and the results are
More? [Y/n/c]               photorealistic. Amiga is improving, but I can always spot an Amiga animation
or an Amiga DVE every time I see one.

 M> sit out there an keep asking silly questions like how
 M> can I put a toaster on my PC.

 M> There are hardware devices that will do video on the PC.  Their cost is
3
 M> to 6 times the price of the toaster.  Why?  Because half

There's an old addage: "You get what you pay for". Know what? It's true.

Mark


--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: Treasure Island =HST/DS= 203-791-8532 (1:141/730)

Message Command:

Message #1010 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 25 Oct 93  14:59:07
From: Sam Kanter
  To: James Hastings-trew
Subj: Re: SAY IT!

>because I know that there are people out there who have never taken the
time to
>actually *think* about what he says who are quite willing to gang up and
>silence the point of view he represents. Sad.

Why do you assume I haven't thought about what Limbaugh says, and when did I
ever say he should be silenced?

I've watched a lot of his shows, and heard him on radio quite a bit.  I've
considered his rhetoric carefully, and that's why I find it dangerous.  It's
filled with buzzwords and code words that are, to me, bordering on the
racist
and even facist. Maybe -you- should think a bit more about what he says.

My point was not specifically to denigrate Limbaugh, but to try to raise
some awareness about technology and content, medium and message. It was lost
More? [Y/n/c]               on you. _That's_ sad...
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link/TBBS/TIMS [phone] 4-Lines
(1:2603/303)

Message Command:

Message #1011 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 26 Oct 93  02:44:43
From: Sam Kanter
  To: Rick Lee
Subj: Re: EDITING

I'm interested to hear how your editing system works out.  I'm currently
using the Amilink CIP system (which you did not mention) that lists for
$1700
(but is not SMPTE).

When you get your system up and running, we can compare notes...
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link/TBBS/TIMS [phone] 4-Lines
(1:2603/303)

Message Command:

Message #1012 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 26 Oct 93  12:00:18
From: Rob Ribar
  To: Don Pope
Subj: Re: lightwave 3D

DP>    Another source of files would be a good Toaster BBS.  Studio Amiga
DP> (if you can get in :)) is an excellent choice. (#817-557-2111).  Ron
DP> (the moderator of this echo) will no doubt :) suggest you call his
DP> board as he has lots of Toaster files. (#616-791-2109).  You might
DP> also call the Amiga Asylum BBS and request the World-Wide Amiga BBS
DP> List (#508-372-2258) and see if there aren't some Amiga BBSes nearer
DP> to you.

        Are any of these boards HST?  I'm planning on getting a 16.8k dual
standard in the future, but I would like some extra utilities now.

        -Rob

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3
 * Origin: PRIDE BBS - Tempe, AZ - XenoLink Z3a - 16.8k USR DS (1:114/215)

Message Command:

Message #1013 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 26 Oct 93  16:52:11
From: Don Smith
  To: Tom Spyrison
Subj: Scene files

Hey Tom, all you have to do is use the "Load from Scene" button in the
Objects menu in Layout. This works well, but the it will also load all
objects from the scene that you have chosen. All the objects will come
in parented and with the motions. This is a good way to load into a
scene an object with lots of parented objects to it and each time you
load from scene and have the object in it it will rename the new objects
for you. Hope this helps and makes since...
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff122/a]
 * Origin: The Graphics Alternative - EC, CA. 510.524.2780 (1:125/524)

Message Command:

Message #1014 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 25 Oct 93  06:58:33
From: Don Pope
  To: Jeff Dehaven
Subj: Re: Humans in 3D

In a message of <21-Oct-93 0:10> Jeff Dehaven (1:104/121) wrote:


 JD> Humanoid Animation Designer from AntiGrav workshop- so I bought it.
 JD>   These are excellent objects

   Yes, these are excellent objects.  Unfortunately, I originally ordered
them many months ago for a project that has since come and gone.... only got
the software two weeks ago. :(  Now I haven't time to play with it much, but
what little I've done, I've been impressed with.

 JD> Also- when you register, they send you a child object

   Have you actually gotten your child object already? I was afraid that it
would be another case of waiting months.

More? [Y/n/c]                JD> QUESTION:  Anyone on here used the Dynamic Motion Module?

   I've ordered it direct..... I was told I should get it by the end of the
month.  In other words, it's not shipping yet and is another one of those
RSN programs. :(  If it does what the promos indicate though, it will be
worth the wait.

Amigaly,
.Don.

---
 * Origin: inSaNiTY- [HST/DS] (1:3815/101.2)

Message Command:

Message #1015 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 26 Oct 93  23:20:11
From: Grant Cormier
  To: All
Subj: Free 3D Magazine Offer...

 *** X-Post Warning ***

        To: [e-mail]

      From: [e-mail]

   Subject: 3D Artist - free copy

     Lines: 7

      Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 14:36:26 PDT

Message-Id: <[e-mail]>

  X-Origin: The Portal System (TM)

More? [Y/n/c]

Bill Allen, publisher/editor of 3D Artist newsletter, has asked me to
announce
that he'll send a free copy to anyone in the US and  Canada who calls and
asks
for one.  The voice number is 505-982-3532 and fax is 505-820-6929.  The
latest
issue, just out is 32 glossy pages of absolutely essential info for anyone
doing 3D on any platform, altho it concentrates on PC applications. Check it
out!

*** End of X-Posting ***

Hi Everyone,

              I have spoken to Bill, and it appears that Amiga support will
be
for Imagine and Lightwave at the moment... But he's looking for Real3D
support
and other Amiga supported 3D  programs, so if you want to contribute or write
about these programs he would be happy to hear from you...
More? [Y/n/c]
 Grant Cormier      BUG, TAZA, 3DAFI, and ADF member     \|/    Amiga
 Fidonet: 1:229/15  Usenet: [e-mail]     @ @     1200
-----------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo------
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #1016 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 27 Oct 93  19:27:30
From: Rich Koster
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: re: Projection mapping

Hi Ron!

On Monday, October 25th '93 you wrote to All:

 RK> Im doing a worm whole - ah-la deep space 9 sort of thing and I
 RK> get really nice results using projection mapping... BUT I get a
 RK> rectangular screen showing around the edges...

You mean a rectangular line surrounding the image you are projection
mapping onto, right?

 RK I know its `projected` but I think
 RK> showing a projection screen is taking it to far!

:)

More? [Y/n/c]                RK> Im trying to map fractal reflections on a object that fills the screen.

A flat object?

 RK> I have over scan set but the map clearly shows it edges. I tried
 RK> zooming in the lens  a bit to try and eliminate the unwanted edge but
 RK> it still seems to be there.

 RK> Is this the way its suppose to be?

Maybe the object you are using actually has two surfaces, and what you
are seeing is a frame (like a picture frame)?

If you are front projection mapping onto a flat object (that you are sure
does not have a frame surrounding it), then try adjusting the Texture Size
of the projected image (found when you select the [T] button).  Make the
image a little bit larger and perhaps those edges will go away.

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #1017 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 27 Oct 93  19:34:35
From: Rich Koster
  To: Mark Weiss
Subj: re: LW on a PC? ALL PC owners

Hi Mark!

On Tuesday, October 26th '93 you wrote to Moderator:

 MW> I can play back animations of network quality at 800x600 resolution

Sorry to burst your bubble, but network quality animations have a higher
horizontal resolution than just 800 pixels...

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #1018 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 27 Oct 93  01:28:11
From: Michael C.ling
  To: All
Subj: Animation cels in LW

I want to do animation cels in LW but they come out transparent or opaque;
how do I have ONLY THE TRANSPARENT COLOR STAY TRANSPARENT with the opaque
stuff staying completely opaque.

M C L -


 * OLX 2.1 TD * RAYTRACE: photorealistic 3D rendering conference on RIME
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff122/a]
 * Origin: The Graphics Alternative - EC, CA. 510.524.2780 (1:125/524)

Message Command:

Message #1019 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 26 Oct 93  16:50:52
From: PETER Greci
  To: Zoltan Hunt
Subj: Re: VTU Video

so far I haven't recieved my Tape yet from VTU for answering the
Questionaire, I did however get my 101 tips and Tricks Pamphlet and 5 Things
you can't do with a Toaster and How to do them Video both by Lee Stranahan
Courtesy of VTU for resubscribing.

---
 * Origin: The Trade-N-Post (AMIGA) NYC [6Gigs
4Lines]718-847-4439(1:2603/207)

Message Command:

Message #1020 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 26 Oct 93  16:54:23
From: PETER Greci
  To: Mike Nielsen <Received>
Subj: Re: 040 meets LW 3.0--YAHOOOO

Glad yer happy again Mike. BTW Erik's name is with a K not a C

---
 * Origin: The Trade-N-Post (AMIGA) NYC [6Gigs
4Lines]718-847-4439(1:2603/207)

Message Command:

Message #1021 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 26 Oct 93  16:56:18
From: PETER Greci
  To: Michael Butler
Subj: Re: 35MM

The CI-5000 is approx $5000 and a Motion Picture Film Back is approx $6000
more

---
 * Origin: The Trade-N-Post (AMIGA) NYC [6Gigs
4Lines]718-847-4439(1:2603/207)

Message Command:

Message #1022 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 27 Oct 93  00:41:55
From: Zoltan Hunt
  To: James Hastings-Trew
Subj: Re: VTU Video

I just might do that if nothing comes in the next 2-3 weeks.
>Zoltan>

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3
 * Origin: 3DArtForumCanada-Toronto 14.4 [phone] (1:250/128)

Message Command:

Message #1023 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 27 Oct 93  10:51:58
From: Sandy Simpson
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: got It

 SS> Well, it is labeled PRO_VIDEO on my system.  I was
SS> expecting more general talk about professional video,
SS> but still enjoy the Toaster talk.  <SS>

RK> Please ask your sysop to change the name to VIDEO-TOASTER. PRO_VIDEO
RK> is anotherecho entirely.  Moderated by Mark Shandler.

Mark,
WIll do.  <SS>
--- FreeMail 1.09
 * Origin: Solid Rock BBS - Agana, GU - USA [phone] (1:345/3014)

Message Command:

Message #1024 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 20 Oct 93  22:44:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: IBM toaster wanted

-> Windows is a dinosaur... and slow at best. The OS isn`t capible of
-> doing toaster type work, and the toaster can`t make toast in a PC.
-> The toaster is an AMIGA only accessory.  Not because it isn`t
-> available for the PC, but rather because it isn`t possible on a PC.
->
-> There is interface software for the Mac to control the AMIGA/TOASTER
-> via a cable link... there was talk of such a link for the PC to
-> control an AMIGA/TOASTER - but its really a silly idea... a PC
-> controlling an Amiga controlling a toaster...  like why?   IF you
-> decide to set up such a configuration you would have to bypass the PC
-> and use the Amiga to acess LW. Keep in mind that the toaster software
-> requires 100 megs of HD space and 12+ megs of ram... not 640k chunks
-> of it -  but a 12-18 meg pool of ram.

Hello... I have 20 megs (32 soon) of RAM on my PC! And it is all
continuous. When was the last time you used a PC? Was it a XT? A 286,
More? [Y/n/c]               maybe?...
There are several memory management programs for the PC that allow you
to have as much memory as you can, and it all behaves the same way to
the user as the memory on an Amiga.

BTW, a Toaster/Amiga combined with a PC enhances your capabilities
tremendously. Both computers complement each other very well. There are
great graphic packages for the PC that are not available for the
Amiga/Toaster, the same way that there are great packages avilable for
the Amiga that aren't for the PC.

Besides, you can render you animations on one platform while using the
other for something else.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #1025 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 20 Oct 93  23:01:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Larry Reddom
Subj: Video blaster

-> Well it sounds like I need to buy an AMIGA after all. OK well for
-> starters let say I bought a new AMIGA. What system shoud I be looking
-> at and whats all needed? I see a few used toasters for sale around
-> here so whats a good price on a used one. Im sure that I will need
-> more than an AMIGA 3000 or better and a toaster, Camcorder, VCR, to
-> get me going. Could you or any other person in this echo maybe make
-> me a list of whats needed to purchase to get started. I know its like
-> most things, you buy and find you still need more. I have the NEWTEK
-> video demo and was very impressed, but I was also told after that the
-> video was done with many toasters and not just one. Hey! want to buy
-> my video blaster ? or will it come in handy for use with the toaster
-> in some way ?

Here is what you need for a basic system:
 -Amiga computer with a fast CPU or accelerator card (50mhz 030 or 28mhz
  040)
More? [Y/n/c]                -Video Toaster
 -Amiga Monitor
 -2 decent video monitors
 -Minimum 200mb hard drive for the Amiga
 -Minimum 10mb of RAm for the Amiga (2mb chip RAM). If you want to play
 back animations in real time with a Toaster 4000, 18mb of RAM.
 -A camcorder or a player VTR for a source. A second video source if you
 want to do dissolves or effects between two moving videos.
 -One TBC for each video source
 -A sync generator (or other stable sync source like a camera output)
 -An edit controller for the VTRs
 -A recorder VTR (single-frame capable if you want to record animations)
 -A single-frame controller (if you want to record animations. Some
 newer decks have this built-in)
 -A waveform/vectorscope if you want to output good quality video. These
 are now available on cards and use a standard monitor.

A course or two in video production would also be very helpful if you've
never done it before. If you are getting into the Amiga for the first
time, it's also a good idea to read magazines like Amiga World, Video
Toaster User and Desktop Video World. You'll receive a lot of useful
information.
More? [Y/n/c]
Good luck with your Amiga/Toaster purchase. I'm sure you'll have a lot
of fun!
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #1026 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 26 Oct 93  20:22:05
From: J Eric Chard
  To: J. Moore
Subj: Lwave & A4d

  *In a message dated 24 Oct 93   6:49:11 J. Moore writes:

JM> At least *Rich* can take a little teasing for forgetting about 2.0's
JM> object morphing.  Oh well...

        Coulda fooled me!

JM> JEC>     BTW, what is happening w/A4d?  My >>impression<< is that the
JM> JEC> interface sucked so bad that nobody can do anything useful with
JM> JEC> It seems serious users (animators that actually want to make a
JM> living, not
JM> JEC> flog some thread on the nets) gravitate to LW.  I have noticed
JM> that all
JM>  reviews for A4d (especially by that bootlicker from some community
JM> JEC> college
JMJEC> in New England)  REALLY gloss over the modeling aspect of A4d. Does
More? [Y/n/c]               JM> JEC> even HAVE a modeler?
JM>
JM>  A4D's modeller is very nice, thank you (I haven't used
JM> LW's modeller enough to give you direct comparisons here).  Several
JM> things I like about A4D's modeller are multiple levels of group
JM> selection, and its hide feature, and the alternate spaces (like
JM> spare or
JM> jump screens in DPaint).
JM>
        Odd how no one talks about it!

JM> (Sorry, but if I had delivered my Unix manual to my publisher
JM> without an index, well...Maybe if we ALL complained?)

        By all means, complain!  But do it in writing or it doesn't mean
anything! "Complaining" got me beta tester status.

JM>2) Waves.  I love the way A4D does waves.  First off, everything in the
JM>program can be timelined during animations; that includes waves.  So it's
JM> easy to make them fade in and out, etc. etc. etc.  You can also place
JM> them (as many as you want) anywhere you want.  So if you want to......

More? [Y/n/c]                       A4d "waves" sound like they are actually something a little more
than LWave "ripples".  I don't understand their complete power, but it
sounds nice.  True, I'd also like to see "envelopes" on many currently
uncontrollable LWave functions, most importantly displacement mapping.

JM> The nicest parts which could be easily added to LW are loading in
JM> JPEGs

        I (and many other users) have suggested this to Allen Hastings
([e-mail]).  Although he has responded to and acted upon many
other suggestions, I don't remember hearing anything about this.
        I'd prefer an AREXX hook that would allow LWave to invoke ADPro on
any incoming images.  Then the pressure would be off Allen to decipher a
million formats that ADPro already understands.

JM> Well, I'm gonna stop there.  The more rabid guys (mostly south of the
JM> border, I'm sad to say) start foaming if you say anything nice about
JM> anything not made by Newtek.  Speaking of which, another nice thing
JM>
JM> Of course, I guess officially Toaster software never has bugs, right.
JM> Just like Microsoft.

More? [Y/n/c]                       Somebody once told me, "Never cop to it!  Even if they find you
naked in bed with her..."  <some colorful erotic stuff> "....never admit
it!"
        Gates and NewTek both live by that credo.


*FSED91j*
--- Star-Net v1.02a
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Message Command:

Message #1027 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 26 Oct 93  20:36:14
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Hammed Malik
Subj: LWM AREXX, "stand-ins"

  *In a message dated 25 Oct 93  00:11:11 Hammed Malik writes:

HM> Hello Eric,
HM>
HM> A while back, you posted a listing of your ARexx script for 'enhanced
HM> bounding boxes'.  Apprently there was an update to it since the first
HM> one didn't work.  Will you be posting it on this conference?  I have
HM> been working on some particle animation macros and will be posting
HM> them when I am done.

        Hi, Hammed!
Yes, there is an update, but I can't seem to post on this board-the
formatting gets screwed up.  The latest version is up on Portal, which I
believe is part of Aminet, perhaps you can get it there.

On Stuart Ferguson's advice I rewrote it using the AXIS-DRILL function
More? [Y/n/c]               rather than boolean subtract, which he thought would be faster.  Turns out
the boolean was faster!  Maybe I'll shorten up all the lines to post it
here.

It takes about 43 seconds to turn the DC10 object into it's "enhanced
bounding box", so this thing is no blazer.  However, it is a testemony
(sp?) to the power of the LWM/Arexx implementation.


*FSED91j*
--- Star-Net v1.02a
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Message Command:

Message #1028 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 26 Oct 93  20:42:16
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Hammed Malik
Subj: Re: Morphing- LW & M+

  *In a message dated 25 Oct 93  00:19:11 Hammed Malik writes:

HM> Hello Eric,
HM>
HM> JEC>Amiga.  Currently, for commercial high-end work, it seems the best
HM> JEC>option is capture by Abekas 60, using an Exabyte for data transfer
HM> JEC>That solution costs the artist >$2K.  OK for professionals, but
HM> JEC>still.
HM>
HM> I am interested in the Abekas setup.  Are you using one?
            Negative.  Nobody in Seattle seems to use the Abekas 60 anyway.

HM>  How much are the Exabyte drives (models?) and where can one get one?

        The numbers I've heard are in the $2000 range.

More? [Y/n/c]               HM> JEC>        I have great hopes for the new Seagate drive that will
HM> JEC>connect to the PAR.  Supposedly it is MUCH better than the 3600 at
HM> JEC>capturing moving video.  If we can get Q-factors of >18 we can
HM> JEC>probably sell the resulting product to ad agencies.
HM>
HM> This new drive that you are taking about, is it the ST3650A?  A while
HM>back I was talking to a DPS tech support guy here in Toronto and he said
HM> that the new drive works but it won't allow animations longer than
HM> 2mins (though you can fill it up with 5mins worth.  You just can't have
HM> one anim longer than 2mins).  I will be speaking with him on tuesday
HM>to  confirm this because I can purchase either one of the drives and
HM> would like to get the better one (obviously).

        The ## I saw was 3655A, and you have to get a special firmware
chip.  Best to go thru DPS.  The drive is actually cheaper than the 3600,
so there's no real reason not to.  The odds on anybody demanding an
unbroken 2 minute animation are miniscule.


*FSED91j*
--- Star-Net v1.02a
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More? [Y/n/c]
Message Command:

Message #1029 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 26 Oct 93  20:54:29
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Nancy Kowall
Subj: Re: "LightWave PRO"

  *In a message dated Sat 23 Oct 93 21:06 Nancy Kowall writes:

NK> What do guys think of the new 'newsletter/tutorial' from AVID- seems
NK> a bit steep for 15 or so pages ($48 for 12 months IF you subscribe
NK> to VTU- $72 if not. I liked the first issue but....   $$$$$$$$$$$

        It's a tough one, Nancy.  If an issue has just one hint that saves
you hours of work, well.......

        And if you've seen Mark Thompsons "Windmill" animation you'll agree
that some extremely powerful techniques were discussed.  Techniques that
>I< certainly would not have come up with.

        And the throw-away line from an Amblin animator about animated
dither was very important- I wondered how they got the"silty" look!

More? [Y/n/c]
*FSED91jSC 1.3d* I intend to live forever... so far so good.
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #1030 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 27 Oct 93  10:13:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: John Donlevie
Subj: KINGS NEW ROBE

-> I call this the kings new robe because I am tired of reading how
-> great Toaster 3.0 and the new CG are. But really some VERY BASIC
-> operations SUCK. What are these? Foremost on the list is the
-> extremely simple task of keying a title on the lower third. this in
-> REAL television should be smooth and unobtrusive. The Toaster damn
-> near cuts it on, this is not smooth andunobtrusive. My client damn
-> near shot me! I had to load 2.0 on the downstream toaster to get a
-> slower key dissolve (and rebuild all of my lower thirds...thats TV
-> for those name and job titles at the lower third of the screen). When
-> I did this, use 2.0, I noticed that it rendered CG in FARLESS Time
-> than 3.0.(yes I was using Bitmapp fonts in both versions) Sincelower
-> thirds occur on cue in real time, there wasno way to set up a key
-> dissolve, which looks like total sh_t anyway, withoutdoing a match
-> frame edit. This is ok but it makes 8 times as many editsthat
-> sometimes have to be done twice. I have real decks, I know those
-> ofyou out there with AG 1960's will get glitched or worse. Lets get
More? [Y/n/c]               -> to theother nightmare of yesterdays edit, the page turn that I have
-> given thisclient for the last 5 shows, she was ready to ream me when
-> I told her "sorrynot this time, seems the new software sucks...".
-> These are two basicfeatures that we had before, with the Newtek
-> reputation for quality on theline, why was this rushed out with these
-> BASIC flaws/bugs? I have spent most of my time with the new release
-> in lightwave which works greatexcept that i cant use english units in
-> layout even though i can inmodeler. So Why is tech support at newtek
-> been unreachable since August?Are the more gremlins in this
-> Pandorra's Box?

So, is this type of upgrade worth the $800 so many think is very
reasonable? I don't want to be out of topic, since the Toaster upgrade
price/quality is the issue here. But I'll have to give a non-Toaster
example for comparison purposes.
3D Studio lists for $3,000. The recent release III upgrade cost $497. It
has been troughly tested and debugged, comes in a very nice box with 4
manuals (covering every feature in great detail - and lots of great
tutorials) and a new CD-ROM with 700 megabytes of objects, textures and
sample files.
Now, the Toaster retails for $2,500. The upgrade is $800. It is
more expensive than 3D Studio's, specially in relation to the original
More? [Y/n/c]               purchase price. You get barely passable documentation and software with
lots of bugs. The Lightwave you get is not the same Seaquest is done
with (they have tons of custom code NewTek wrote for them).
My point is that NewTek should:
        A: Upgrade the software more often, so that end users can have
access to the same features as the Hollywood guys. After all, they make
it seem that you get the same Lightwave that the pros use.
        B: If they want to charge a relatively high upgrade price, at
least make sure the product works flawlessly. After all, this is
supposed to be a professional product, used in professional video
environments. When a client is paying $$$ for post-production, the last
thing you can afford to do is have several problems.

This lack of quality control is very bad for the Toaster and should be
avoided at all costs. An unhappy client is very quick to spread his/her
Toaster horror stories out, and the Toaster ends up with a bad
reputation.

The Toaster started out as an awesome product that trully revolutionized
video production. I hate to see it degrade and fade away because of lack
of care...
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
More? [Y/n/c]                * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #1031 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 27 Oct 93  10:52:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Y/C AND COMPONENT

-> This entire issue is confusing and has been made even more muddy by
-> Newtek who claims that Y/C output is not important for the Toaster.
->
-> I was under the impression that once a signal goes to composite, any
-> Y/C in the chain becomes irrelevant, so that Toaster users have to
-> lose ALL the benefit of Y/C camcorders and decks when they use the
-> Toaster.
->
-> Am I wrong?

If you are working with a high-band, broadcast-quality format like
Betacam SP, MII or 1", composite quality will be great because of the
extended bandwith of the VTRs. One inch machines are still considered
the best analog pro video format and they work in composite all the
time. Now, if you are using S-VHS or Hi-8, the story is different.
Your final product will always be composite video. It can take the form
More? [Y/n/c]               of a VHS dub or a television broadcast - but it is always composite. The
major benefit of Y/C is to keep the integrity of the signal with
low-band systems (S-VHS or Hi-8) that can't handle the full video signal
and cause some degradation with every composite generation. The use of
Y/C while editing keeps the signal degradation as low as possible, and
you end up with a better looking composite final product.

So, if you use S-VHS or Hi-8 and you will go through a few generations
while editing, Y/C will benefit you as compared to composite. If you use
a broadcast-quality format, composite should be fine.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #1032 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 27 Oct 93  11:28:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: J. Moore
Subj: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

APPLAUSE!!!

Great message!

I feel the same way. Whenever I post a message about features available
to other platforms, I see lots of unrealistic replies by Toaster users.
One disadvantage of keeping this echo strictly Toaster-only is that it
keeps Toaster users unaware of what is available outside. Why do you
want to know that? Mainly because if you know that there are better
tools available to other platforms, you can call NewTek and ask them to
include those tools in their next releases. But if you don't know what's
happening outside the Video Toaster "universe", you are certainly bound
to believe there is no intelligent life out there.
All of us Toaster users have something to gain by acquiring this
knowledge.

More? [Y/n/c]               I believe that unbiased product comparisons / comments, like the Video
Machine one, are very healthy. There are some products out there that
offer features not available with the Toaster, or superior to those
available. As a NewTek customer, I feel they should be working on trying
to improve their product so that it remains competitive. If they want to
see more dollars from my bank account, they'd better give me what I
need/want. But I can only ask NewTek to improve their products when I am
aware of what is out there. Believing that the Toaster is the best
switcher in the world and that Lightwave is the best 3D program there
is, regardless of price, is like believing the Hunday is the best
automobile in the world just because you happen to own one. Japanese
cars, by the way, have improved tremendously by being aware of the
strong features that american cars offered and by incorporating them
into their own automobiles.

We have already seen a few people right here on this echo abandon the
Toaster for another platform/system. They are not doing so for no
reason. They are doing so because they need to stay competitive and
NewTek is not providing them with the features they need.

Instead of bashing PCs, MACs and even SGIs, whay don't we accept the
limitations of the Toaster system as compared to other systems and do
More? [Y/n/c]               something constructive? Like, why don't we all start listing the
features we see on other systems that we'd like to see on the Toaster?
Maybe someone from NewTek will start taking notes and the next releases
will have better features and become, again, the leading edge product
the Toaster was.

The Toaster has been out for a few years now, and several of NewTek's
promisses have not been fulfilled. Like perfect compression, a better
paint program, true effects programability, etc. All these features are
starting to become available with other systems. NewTek, the desktop
video pioneer and creator of the "revolution" is losing important
ground. Im am sure that if others can do it, NewTek can do it better.
They just need to try...
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #1033 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 27 Oct 93  11:36:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Mark Woollard
Subj: SunRize Card & Toaster

-> Has anyone with a Toaster setup been using the Sunrize audio card?
-> I've been doing a lot of video stuff with my setup but now need to
-> raise my sound editing capabilities. I'm especially interested in
-> hearing how easy it is to synch the sound with video, especially when
-> using Toaster transition effects.  I understandthat there's a Toaster
-> compatibility option.  How well does it work?  Are there any
-> compatibility issues with the Toaster 4000?

I use the Sunrize with the Toaster. I love the Sunrize. It does for
audio what the Toaster does for Video. It reads the time code from my
VTRs without a glitch and anables me to sync sound effects to video in a
matter of seconds, with no generation losses due to editing.

As for using both at the same time, that's what the optiona module is
for. but when running the Toaster and the Sunrize together, you have
only 2 audio tracks available. I prefer to do the audio after I do the
More? [Y/n/c]               video. This way I have all 8 audio trackas available.

I'll wanr you, though: Once you start using the Sunrize, you won't be
able to do without it  ;-)
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #1034 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 24 Oct 93  17:01:00
From: Darrell Schmidt
  To: Alan Chan
Subj: Open Mouth

Hi Alan,
   Got your message today.  I had signed off Conference 351 and had been
   entering with automatic Robocomm which didn't scan that conference
   for messages.  Saw your response when I signed on manually today.

Yes the "Open mouth; insert foot; echo internationally" tagline seemed
to be created for just such a response.  And it was intentional!

Guess he was in the wrong conference himself.  At least I hope so!!!!
  SLMR 2.1a  Stump: The state tree of California


--- WM v3.10/93-0897
 * Origin: Solar System 714-837-9677 6.5Gigs  (1:103/957)

Message Command:

Message #1035 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 27 Oct 93  20:04:29
From: Eduardo Barreto
  To: Nancy Kowall
Subj: Re: VTU Video

NK>  ZH> Two issues back, Video Toaster User had a question sheet that
NK> asked
NK>  ZH> reader about the magazine (Aug/Sept 93- Beyond Jarassic Park)
NK>  ZH> Filling this out was ment to get you a free video in 6-8 weeks.
NK>  ZH> Has anybody who filled this out received anything yet?
NK>
Nope, i was about to ask the same question...The worse part is when i get
home i run to the mail box hoping to find my demo video (it tells you how
exciting my life is...) and NOTHING....
Ebarreto

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3
 * Origin: Toaster Universe BBS [phone] 16.8K Dual Standard (1:135/355)

Message Command:

Message #1036 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 27 Oct 93  22:59:24
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: Re: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

  *In a message dated 20 Oct 93  22:33:11 Paulo De Andrade writes:

PA> -> JEC>          If it was MORPHING, it more than likely was Morph
PA> Pluse
PA> -> JEC> (ASDG) and had little or nothing to do with the Toaster.
PA> -> Toasters JEC> don't morph.
PA>
PA> -> With the latest version of LightWave 3D, Toasters *do* morph
PA> objects.
PA>
PA> Toasters morph 3D objects, not 2D images. The effect for Warlock was a
PA> 2D morph that was done with Morph Plus, by ASDG, an awesome image
PA> manipulation program. 3D and 2D morphing are completely different
PA> things.

        Thanks for backing me up, Paulo.  You'ld think these guys would
More? [Y/n/c]               have a clue.

        SYNERGY GRAPHIX & ANIMATION - SEATTLE


*FSED91j*
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #1037 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 27 Oct 93  10:12:32
From: Echo Moderator
  To: All
Subj: RULES

This echo started out as a wonderful Video-Toaster msg base and in the past
couple weeks has strayed from what it was created for.  So I thought I would
post some official rules and guide lines (as much as I hate rules myself I
see they are required).


1.  This is the VIDEO-TOASTER echo... ALL posts must pertain to that topic
else they will be deemed `off topic` and posters of such msgs will be
breaking echo rules.  These posts have been running rampant latley and today
I have sent out a half dozen msgs to sysops of the systems they were posted
from.

Breaking the above rule will get you...  1.  banned from this echo on the
bbs you posted from or   2. banned from the bbs you are posting on or   3.
Get the links to this echo CUT to the bbs you are posting on.
So Please stay on topic.  Any off topic post will get one of the above
More? [Y/n/c]               actions from the echo moderator.


2.  Commercial sales of items or advertisment of said items in a national
echo, including this one is against national fidonet poilicy.  Please do not
post commercial promotional msgs in this echo.  Press releases, news and
info are fine...  no `call to order` or sales types of msgs.


3.  There are other echos PRO_VIDEO and AMIGA_VIDEO which will happily
accept desktop video types of msgs.  Have your system check with his source
feed about gaining access to them.  The Video-toaster topic DOES NOT include
discussion of PC`s or generic VIDEO talk.  Unless the video talk includes
the use of this other equipment with the toaster.


4.  Banners and or ascii graphics, multiple source/tag lines and ascii logos
are NOT allowed in national echos.  Please refrain from leaving cute
pictures at the end of your msgs....  as well as those silly one line
`quotes for the day`.  Keep your msgs to the point and informative.  Sysops
are PAYING $$$ to send/recieve these echos.  following the above rule keeps
those costs to the minimum.
More? [Y/n/c]
5. Handles are not allowed in national echos.  If using a handle on the bbs
that you are posting your msg on,  you must sign the msg with your REAL NAME.
But using your real name in the header of the msg is preferred.


6. Have fun and help the echo grow by posting friendly informative
information... and others will do the same for you!




VIDEO-TOASTER (tagname VIDEO) echo moderator.
Ron Kramer

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1038 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 27 Oct 93  10:33:04
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Chris Baugh
Subj: Re: Lightwave without a toast

 CB> One user, one copy, one use at a time of each program they bought,
 CB> just that there is more than one machine involved.  It's plain and
 CB> simple, nothing illegal, immoral or fattening about it.

I know, but once installed and capible of rendering on two machines who`s
gonna limit themselves to that type of operation when a 300 frame anim needs
to be completed and time is of the essence. :)

I know I couldn`t restain myself from rendering with both machines.


--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1039 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 27 Oct 93  10:40:26
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Gregg Mercede
Subj: Re: Toaster/PC

 GM> hardware resellers.

 GM> The last Amiga show in New York I attended was almost
 GM> empty.  The year before it was huge.

Gregg, this is not the AMIGA_VIDEO echo (yes there is one of those as well)
This is the VIDEO-TOASTER echo. Your last two msgs are off topic.  Please
follow echo rules or be banned from the msg base.  Your last two posts would
be on topic in AMIGA_VIDEO (which I also moderate)



--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1040 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 27 Oct 93  10:42:24
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Dave Wells
Subj: Too late ...

 DW> At least for some, to order a case of anything
 DW> containing freon or other CFCs. According to a sign at
 DW> one of the largest vendors in town, they can't sell it
 DW> to anyone for other than a commercial application.  And

we`ve stayed from the topic at hand here - drop this thread and turn back to
VIDEO-TOASTER discussions.



--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1041 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 27 Oct 93  10:48:06
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Jim Alexander
Subj: lightwave 3D

 JA> Is there any clip-art or animation scene files out there?
 JA> Public domain or otherwise?

 JA> Thanks.

My bbs is exclusively toaster/3d rendering.  There are hundreds of objects
and scenes and anims for you to dl.  See the # at the bottom of this msg.


--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1042 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 27 Oct 93  19:32:34
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Jeff Dehaven
Subj: Re: LW on a PC? ALL PC owners

 JD> for Video Toaster Freaks like all of us-  how many of
 JD> these kinds o' boards are out there allready??  The
 JD> only one Ive heard of is Studio Amiga.


You must not read VIDEO_TOASTER_USER magazine! - My bbs was written up as
the best 3d/toaster bbs around, Studio amiga followed as 2nd.   There are a
couple others - MediaZone and Toaster-pro... I`ve called others but they
tend to be poor or not up any longer.  Mikes video house is a good board and
has some good graphics/video files.


--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1043 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 27 Oct 93  19:34:58
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Jeff Dehaven
Subj: Humans in 3D

 JD> guy Running, Strong guy walking, and a woman with the
 JD> same envelopes.  Not only are the objects VERY
 JD> realistic- but they come with morph targets (seperate
 JD> objects to morph to in lightwave) for phoenemes and

Hey - anyone ever get those comical muscle man objects??? the little blub I
read about them in a past magazine looked good. Just wondered about first
hand experience.


--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1044 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 27 Oct 93  19:38:22
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: GOT IT

 SK> I'm all for adding video discussions to Toaster
 SK> conference -- unless Toaster users are just using LW,
 SK> Toaster and Video are pretty much the same subject.
 SK> (Moderator -- what do you think?)

This is a old and dead subject and isn`t open to discussion.
Where were you 6 months ago when this was the generic VIDEO echo?  NO ONE
USED IT.  The old VIDEO echo was closed and VIDEO-TOASTER took it over.  So
to answer your question, no way - generic video is on topic IF it is posted
in conjuction with the toaster.  ie: PIV2001 or other toaster type video
hardware/accessories.  Else its off topic.  I sent out a half dozen note to
posters on offending systems.  I`ve already gotten some replies from sysops
who have banned off topic posters in this echo from their bbs systems.



More? [Y/n/c]               --- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1045 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 27 Oct 93  19:42:02
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Y/C AND COMPONENT

 SK> This entire issue is confusing and has been made even
 SK> more muddy by Newtek who claims that Y/C output is not
 SK> important for the Toaster.

No its not important, there is more to a good video signal then Y/C.
(its only important to those trying to tweek a bit more quality out of low
end equipment).  A good share of what you watch on broadcast TV is coming
from composite equipment.



--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1046 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 28 Oct 93  08:17:53
From: Don Pope
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: TOASTER AND VIDEO MISC

In a message of <24-Oct-93 20:57:27> Sam Kanter (1:2603/303) wrote:

 SK> Re. autohue problems:

 SK> I should have mentioned that it is the BACKGROUND colors that are off.
 SK>  What should be blue is purple, what should be red is green, etc.

   Sam, I know you said you've run the auto-hue program and all, but I had
exactly the same situation after installing the T4000 in my A2000
(background colors off). Had to run the auto-hue a couple of times, and
still need to run it every now and then (you do know that you don't have to
go through all that "program out to input 4" stuff with the T4000 board?).
If all else fails, get an RMA # and send it in to NewTek.  When I had to
send in my old T2000 board and explained that I was using it in production,
they paid shipping BOTH ways and had a repaired board to me in TWO days.
Pretty good service, I thought. :)
More? [Y/n/c]
Amigaly,
.Don.
---
 * Origin: inSaNiTY- [HST/DS] (1:3815/101.2)

Message Command:

Message #1047 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 29 Oct 93  06:16:31
From: Rich Koster
  To: Jim Lammers
Subj: re: PC/Toaster/Mac/SGI-video

Hi Jim!

On Tuesday, October 26th '93 you wrote to All:

 JL> So what am I saying here? I hope that the moderator will be a little
 JL> more tolerant to helping other platforms where the issues being dealt
 JL> with are related to getting good video. This is a subject where
 JL> information is frightfully scarce - if one doesn't know personally a
 JL> truly well informed person, there are a million pitfalls. So it's a
 JL> great service to get a few tips from our friends here on Fido. My first
 JL> bunch of knowledge came from this very echo, about a year ago, before
 JL> the toasterheads commandeered it.
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Must you use derogatory name-calling like that?  Especially since you are
more of a guest here and not one who posts from a Toaster user's point of
More? [Y/n/c]               view...

There are many specialized echoes on Fidonet.  I wish those moaning that
this one has become a Toaster-only one would recognize that the moderator
has the right to direct the focus of the echo to anything he wants.

As one of those who was pushing him to create a Video Toaster-only echo,
I'm glad there is one now.  I do not pay to get these messages to find
out about other platforms and I don't appreciate having to wade through
non-Toaster comments and topics to find the helpful tips which help me in
the Toaster-related aspects of my career.

Yes, as you say it is a great service to get a few tips here on Fido.
I'm sure you understand that most of the people here are reading these
messages for Toaster tips and we'd all appreciate it if those writing
here always stayed within the moderator's guidelines.  :)

P.S. To Ron Kramer:  I've just seen your latest rules post and I applaud
you!

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)
More? [Y/n/c]
Message Command:

Message #1048 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 29 Oct 93  06:22:28
From: Rich Koster
  To: J Eric Chard
Subj: LightWave Morphing

Hi J!

On Wednesday, October 27th '93 you wrote to Paulo De Andrade:

 JEC> PA> Toasters morph 3D objects, not 2D images. [...]
 JEC>
 JEC> Thanks for backing me up, Paulo.  You'ld think these guys would
 JEC> have a clue.

Here's a tip for you, J!  You know how some of the morphing programs
do it, with a mesh grid that you move the points on to match important
points of two images?

With LightWave it would be possible to morph between two highly
segmented flat 3D objects which have images projection-mapped onto
them -- and if these flat mesh objects had been altered in LightWave's
More? [Y/n/c]               Modeller then it would be possible to morph 2D images even in
LightWave!!!!

No, it would not be easy... but you guys should be careful when you
say something is *impossible*!  ;-)

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #1049 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 28 Oct 93  22:35:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: J Eric Chard
Subj: Re: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

@ORIGIN :3376                                                        N
->       Thanks for backing me up, Paulo.  You'ld think these guys would
-> have a clue.
->
->       SYNERGY GRAPHIX & ANIMATION - SEATTLE

I'm in the Seattle area, too. Maybe that's the secret   ;-)
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #1050 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 28 Oct 93  19:09:02
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: Projection mapping

  *In a message dated 25 Oct 93  00:14:38 Ron Kramer writes:

RK> Im doing a worm whole - ah-la deep space 9 sort of thing and I get
RK> really nice results using projection mapping... BUT I get a
RK> rectangular screen showing around the edges... I know its
RK> `projected` but I think showing a projection screen is taking it to
RK> far!
RK>
RK> Im trying to map fractal reflections on a object that fills the
RK> screen. I have over scan set but the map clearly shows it edges. I

        Hmmmm, my understanding of reflection mapping is the reflected
image is projected on an infinite sized sphere, and reflections are
calculated on that basis.

        It would seem that making the reflection map seamless would solve
More? [Y/n/c]               your problem.  (When you say "fractal reflections" I assume you are using
the >>image<< of that name.)  Load the image into ADPro, and scroll it one
half its width.  Then ROLL it one half its height.  That will put the edges
in the center, allowing you to touch it up in Toasterpaint.

        I believe "Fractal.Reflections" is undersized, so scale it up to
752x480 in Adpro to keep from going crazy.


*FSED91j*
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #1051 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 1)
Date: Thu 28 Oct 93 23:41
From: James Hastings-Trew
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: SAY IT!

In a message dated 25 Oct 93  14:59:07, Sam Kanter wrote:

... off topic stuff deleted ... I will reply in detail via Netmail.

 SK> My point was not specifically to denigrate Limbaugh, but to try to
 SK> raise some awareness about technology and content, medium and
 SK> message. It was lost on you. _That's_ sad...

It was lost on me because you didn't say anything. Since you claim you were
not trying to "specifically" denigrate Limbaugh, I can only assume that you
meant to generally denigrate anyone who agrees with him. Since you claim
that you never said that Limbaugh should be silenced, I can only assume that
your comments re: "we should think about what this technology (i.e. the
Toaster) is being used to promote" was just a lot of smoke and mirrors - not
really meant to say anything.

More? [Y/n/c]               Okay, so I've thought about it... it's neither good nor bad. Technology is
content neutral. Since I doubt that you were trying to say that "bad" ideas
don't merit the use of new technology (such as the Toaster), I am left
wondering what it is you *were* trying to say.

You state above that you were trying to do was "raise some awareness about
technology and content, medium and message." What does this mean,
specifically? Does this mean that high-technology should only be used to
promote high-technology messages? Does this mean that I can look forward to
the imminent disappearance of "Earth First" and "Greenpeace" messages from
my TV screen (this being the supreme example of the incompatibility of a
message with it's medium)? Does this mean that high-technology should only
be used to promote "good" ideas? Does this mean that I can look forward to
the imminent disappearance of your President from my TV screen (this being
the supreme example of high-technology being used to broadcast bad ideas
around the globe)?

What you were trying to say was lost on me because it was as vauge as smoke.
The Video Toaster represents a major leap in the ability of small production
shows (like Limbaugh) to add some spice to their product without going
broke. This is a good thing. Just because you disagree with the message in a
knee-jerk liberal fashion does not mean that the use of the Toaster by
More? [Y/n/c]               Rush's production staff should not be noted and aplauded. This is the type
of use of the Toaster that should inspire young people of whatever political
persuasion to see that the production of a popular show such as Rush
Limbaugh's is not beyond their own means, economically, or creatively.

In closing, I'd like to say that if Liberals such as yourself really hate
Rush's show, then produce a compelling alternative, and let the free market
of ideas decide which will survive. And... if you use a Toaster, I will
applaud that effort too, for the medium, if not the content.

--- DLG Pro v0.995/DLGMail
 * Origin: n (1:140/90)

Message Command:

Message #1052 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 1)
Date: 27 Oct 93   4:55:35
From: Bill Beogelein
  To: Don Pope
Subj: Re: Bill Beogelein's Toaster

A2000 + Old Toaster Board + Toaster v3.0 software....

Sometimes when I create a box in the CG, it doesn't have the little
re-sizing gadget on it, and can't be dragged-resized.

Most times it works fine, though.

Anyone else?
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Amiga ShareWare HeadQuarters 313-473-2020  (1:2410/207)

Message Command:

Message #1053 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 1)
Date: 29 Oct 93  16:09:57
From: Mark Hawes
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: TOASTER NEWS...

-> >WHY ARE YOU WRITING TO ME???????
->
-> I wrote to you (as others have done) in response  to your complaint a
-> Newtek's policy.  While I share your feelings, I tried to point out t
-> reality is that Newtek is a business, not just some guys trying to ma
-> life easier.
->
-> Er, did you read the message, and the others written to you?
-> --- TBBS v2.1/NM
->  * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link/TBBS/TIMS [phone] 4-Lines
-> (1:2603/303)
->

Message Command:

Message #1054 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 1)
Date: 29 Oct 93  19:17:24
From: Scott Pessoni
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: TOASTER 4000 DEMO A/B ROL

>Really?  Can you give me a phone number of the place
>that makes that or some
 SK> info?
 SK>
 SK> Amilink is made by RGB Computer and video, (407) 844-
 SK> 3348.  They are in West Palm Beach, Florida.

Thanks...
        -Scott


--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: Treasure Island =HST/DS= 203-791-8532 (1:141/730)

Message Command:

Message #1055 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 1)
Date: 29 Oct 93  19:42:52
From: Scott Pessoni
  To: Zoltan Hunt
Subj: VTU Video

 ZH> Two issues back, Video Toaster User had a question
 ZH> sheet that asked reader about the magazine (Aug/Sept 93-
 ZH>  Beyond Jarassic Park)
 ZH> Filling this out was ment to get you a free video in 6-8 weeks.
 ZH> Has anybody who filled this out received anything yet?

Sorry If this message is late... (Reading old messages! heheheheheh)
But... Nope.. It's October 29 and nothing yet! :(
        -Scott


--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: Treasure Island =HST/DS= 203-791-8532 (1:141/730)

Message Command:

Message #1056 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 1)
Date: 28 Oct 93  17:07:40
From: PETER Greci
  To: Don Pope
Subj: Re: Humans in 3D

Brent Malnack has uploaded a couple of LW scenes done with the Dynamic
Motion Module to Compuserve., I've fiddled with them and it look slike an
interesting prg.

---
 * Origin: The Trade-N-Post (AMIGA) NYC [6Gigs
4Lines]718-847-4439(1:2603/207)

Message Command:

Message #1057 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 1)
Date: 29 Oct 93  13:20:31
From: Rob Ribar
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: KINGS NEW ROBE

PA> 3D Studio lists for $3,000. The recent release III upgrade cost $497.
PA> It
PA> has been troughly tested and debugged, comes in a very nice box with 4
PA> manuals (covering every feature in great detail - and lots of great
PA> tutorials) and a new CD-ROM with 700 megabytes of objects, textures
PA> and
PA> sample files.
PA> Now, the Toaster retails for $2,500. The upgrade is $800. It is
PA> more expensive than 3D Studio's, specially in relation to the original
PA> purchase price. You get barely passable documentation and software
PA> with
PA> lots of bugs. The Lightwave you get is not the same Seaquest is done
PA> with (they have tons of custom code NewTek wrote for them).

     Well, let's not talk retail ok, because there are few people
around who actuallly pay suggested retail prices.  3D Studio v2.01a ran for
More? [Y/n/c]               around $2200 last year, plus let's say $400 for the upgrade.  Ok we're at
$2600 dollars for 3DS v3.0 and you can add another $600 for all of the
IPAS modules...so now we're at $3200.
     Now you can get a Toaster 4000, new for right around $1900, ok?
You add athe 3D Rom for $200, plus let's say another $300 on other various
objects and bitmaps that you may like.  Now we're at $2500 for a Toaster and
Lightwave.
        Now 3DS with the IPAS routines, is a pretty powerful program. I've
seen the new version too, and it's VERY nice!  The speed for rendering are
pretty quick too.  One problem with 3DS, is that you can render a BEAUTIFUL
animation on your monitor, then output it to NTSC and it can look like
complete crap.  Now I've heard that v3.0 has a feature that will solve this
problem, but I'm not completely sure.  And you still have to get a SFC card
to output anything other than 256 color animations, and even then you need
some sort of output card.
        With a Toaster 4000, you've already got what you need to get
started.  You can see all your stuff on an NTSC signal right from the
beginning.  If you want to output HAM8 animations, you can.  You can also
get a SFC card and output 24bit.  And Lightwave also has some feautres 3D
Studio lacks, and with the new Dynamic motion module coming out, 3D Studio
will have some catching up to do.   I do have to say though, the IPAS
particle system is really awesome though.
More? [Y/n/c]                       The real final note is that the Toaster also gives you a switcher,
CG, and paintt program.  3DS is strictly animation.  For the price, there's
just no contest; Toaster wins hands down.  Now if I had an unlimited budget,
I'd probably get both systems, they're both very nice.
What one program can't do, the other can...makes life easy!

        Rob

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3
 * Origin: PRIDE BBS - Tempe, AZ - XenoLink Z3a - 16.8k USR DS (1:114/215)

Message Command:

Message #1058 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 1)
Date: 29 Oct 93  15:19:00
From: DAVID BUCHANAN
  To: RON KRAMER
Subj: RE: TRADE

 >  DB>  ** UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY - PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHAREWARE
 > CONCEPT
 > **
 >  DB> ---
 >  DB>  | AmiQWK 2.1 | "Age before beauty, pearls before swine." -- Tom
 > Servo
 >
 >
 > The above extra text that attached itself to the end of your msg is
 > against
 > echo rules, please ask your sysop to remove banners and cutsie comments
 > from
 > his national echo tags.  thanks moderator.
 >
 >

More? [Y/n/c]               Sir, I think you might want to re-read Policy 4 at your leisure.
Firstly the line
 ** UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY - PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHAREWARE
 CONCEPT***

Is added to the message by the software that I use...I do not
think that I could LEGALLY remove it.

Just like you can't remove:

 --- Maximus 2.00
from your messages

Secondly I don't think that Tag lines are prohibited on ANY ECHO
I could be wrong...I'm going to read my copy of Policy 4 (When I can
find it.)

If so then
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS

must also be removed.

More? [Y/n/c]
I am NOT trying to start a flamefest here but I would be interested
in any reply that you may have.

IMHO I think you are OVER-moderating.


Dave Buchanan








 ** UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY - PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHAREWARE CONCEPT **
---
 | AmiQWK 2.1 | TAGLINE DELETED BY ORDER OF THE TAGCOPS

--- GOMail v1.2 [BETA] [DEMO] 11-14-93
 * Origin: Digital EFX! * 817-588-2915 * Amiga Specific * V.32B (1:130/813)
More? [Y/n/c]
Message Command:

Message #1059 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 1)
Date: 29 Oct 93  12:48:25
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Michael C.ling
Subj: Re: Animation cels in LW

  *In a message dated 27 Oct 93  01:28:11 Michael C.ling writes:

MC> I want to do animation cels in LW but they come out transparent or
MC> opaque;
MC> how do I have ONLY THE TRANSPARENT COLOR STAY TRANSPARENT with the
MC> opaque
MC> stuff staying completely opaque.

        (Damn word wrap!)  Use the key values in the FOREGROUND IMAGE of
the EFFECTS menu.  Use a pure color, like 0 255 0.

        What are you using to create the animation cels?


*FSED91jSC 1.3d* Windows? HA! C:\WINDOWS. DELETE *.* AH! Thats Better <g>
--- Star-Net v1.02a
More? [Y/n/c]                * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #1060 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 1)
Date: 29 Oct 93  10:25:50
From: Daryl Smith
  To: All
Subj: Sanyo VTR

   Anybody here no where to get the new Sanyo GVR-S950 video decks and how
much do they cost ?


--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: * MetroNet * Columbia, MD * 6 Gigs * (1:261/1137)

Message Command:

Message #1061 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 1)
Date: 28 Oct 93  21:19:22
From: Ron Kramer
  To: Dan Mccoy
Subj: Re: "LightWave PRO"

 DM> If I worried about the cost of all these things doing
 DM> this as a hobby, I probably wouldn't even have
 DM> bothered.  But considering all the fun I have had with
 DM> the Toaster/LightWave, I'll continue to get myself deaper in the hole.
:)

 DM> Dan


Me too - plus the information looked really imformative (some of the
magazine articles tend to move slowly and drag on.  I didn`t have time to
read it at all (came today) but I scanned it and the info looked most
usefull.

I`m in.  (at 4.00 per issue if you have VTU mag) it isn`t bad for the info
it gives.
More? [Y/n/c]

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1062 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 31 Oct 93  21:37:17
From: Dani Weinstock
  To: Scott Pessoni
Subj: VTU Video - UPDATE

Hi everybody...

     At the Video Show in New York (October 4-7), I spoke to Phil
Kurz, editor-in-chief of VTU.  He had told me that they were running
late on the video... he had just (or a few days before) finished
taping a segment on the Toaster 4000/3.0 and the Toaster Screamer.  He
said not to expect the videos until mid-November... possibly December.

     Also, be aware that there is no December issue.  Instead, all
subscribers will receive a copy of the Toaster Buyer's Guide.

Dani
--- Star-Net v1.02
 * Origin: ToasterPro BBS. 215-356-7442 14.4 24hrs (1:273/320.0)

Message is reply to #1055.

Message Command:

Message #1063 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 30 Oct 93  09:05:52
From: Rich Koster
  To: PETER Greci
Subj: re: Lightwave PRO

Hi PETER!

On Thursday, October 28th '93 you wrote to All:

 PG> Anyone out there subscribe to the new Lightwave PRo newsletter? What
 PG> do you think of it? I got my first issue today.

I subscribe to Video Toaster User and just got the newsletter yesterday.
It looks like a winner!  I'm sending off my check to subscribe to this.

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #1064 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 30 Oct 93  02:05:19
From: Bill Evans
  To: Mark Weiss
Subj: 24 bit anims

Re: 24 bit anims

> Even so, we're doing it on a 24-bit space, not an 8-bit display. There is
> additional overhead, but a 24-bit playback program would be nice to have.
> According to my figuring, I need about 70MB/sec to run 30fps NTSC
animation i
> 24-bits. I've about 202Mb/sec, which is actually overkill. We're starting
to
> talk about running multiple animation playback sessions now. :)

I'm wondering from your smiley whether this is a joke message, just in case
its not, lets get your numbers straightened out.  One frame at 800x600 (the
size you mention in your earlier message) takes 1.5 megabyte at 24 bit, so we
have 45 Megabytes transfer rate needed for the animation not 70.  Now then
you talk about 202Mb (this would be Megabits, or Megabytes if you forgot to
capitalize it)  if its megabits, then you don't have the bandwidth 200Mb =
More? [Y/n/c]               25MB, on the other hand if you seriously think you have 202MB/sec on your
system you need a reality check.  (Please don't come back with the inanne
Mhz X 4 number).  Even assuming you had stolen a computer from a downed
saucer and had the bandwidth, where is the animation coming from????, you
have 30+Megs for each second of animation you need????, You'll only need 9
Gigs of memory of so to do 30 seconds, HD's?  Only the SCSI-II FAST WIDE 32
spec reaches >30Megs a second and their aren't any drives that can perform at
this rate currently.  So then you have to talk about compression, well you
can use PAR or Broadcaster32 on the Amiga to do the same thing, (60 fields as
well, not 30 frames), so not sure why this conversation made it to the
TOASTER echo.  I talk PC's all day, this echo's for the Video Toaster.
    -bill

--- VFIDO 6.10.03
 * Origin: NASAU Beach CBIS (1:373/17)

Message Command:

Message #1065 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 30 Oct 93  02:05:19
From: Bill Evans
  To: Mark Weiss
Subj: Reality Check II

Re: LW on a PC? ALL PC owners READ THIS

> And I've been "lurking" around this echo and can no longer keep quiet after
> reading this..
You seem to be better at lurking then at posting on topic messages.


>  M> One main reason is the AMIGA OS MULTITASKS - yea I have
>  M> Deskview, and Windows386... but the AMIGA REALLY
> Have you ever run LINUX, OS/2 2.1 or NT? Apparently not.
If you want to run UNIX(linux whatever) Neither a PC or an Amiga is the best
platfrom for it.  OS/2 2.1 actually multitasks, but requires much more
resourc
resources then Amigados, and NT isn't available and frankly is the biggest
performance hog OS ever written, on anything less then a fast 486 with lots
of
More? [Y/n/c]               memory, it's unusable, and its also not terrible stable.
> I don't enjoy working on any machine that can't display workstation
resolutio
> graphics. I'm enjoying 1280x1024x24-bit color on a 21" NEC 6FG monitor
right
> now. I can play back animations of network quality at 800x600 resolution
and
> still download a file in the background, watching both activities
side-by-sid
> on the same monitor. The animation playback is 30fps and looks better than
th
> stuff I saw last year coming off a UNIX workstation. We're using RenderMan
> shaders and the results are photorealistic. Amiga is improving, but I can
> always spot an Amiga animation or an Amiga DVE every time I see one.
After reading this bit, I have to ask, what computer do you own, the only PC
c
ard I know that does 1280x1024 in 24 bit lists for 5K or so, if you mean 8
bit
(256 colors) then my Picasso is currently running that mode right now, and a
l
arge chunk of the other RTG boards will do it as well.  You aren't watching
re
More? [Y/n/c]               al picture resolutions at 800x600 in 24 bit, your hardware is tricking you
aga
in, and where is the source for this data, your harddrive?? again not enough
b
andwidth, if it's an MPEG file it's not really 800x600, and the other boards
p
lay 30 frames not fields again not at 800x600, and again not Network
Quality.
You talk about Renderman shaders??? I'm sorry but if you think you can spot
Am
iga animation, I assure you anyone can spot non raytraced stuff (ie your
shade
r).  You need to learn a little more about you're own equipment before you
com
e in here and post off topic messages inaccurate messages about your system.
      -bill


--- VFIDO 6.10.03
 * Origin: NASAU Beach CBIS (1:373/17)

Message Command:

Message #1066 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 30 Oct 93  02:05:20
From: Bill Evans
  To: All
Subj: Apologies

My Apologies to all on the echo, I had meant to send the previous two
messages
(which are slightly off topic) via netmail, but botched it and now they
travel the net, the board packed them as I logged off.  Ron, I'll go sit in
the penalty box now.
    -bill

--- VFIDO 6.10.03
 * Origin: NASAU Beach CBIS (1:373/17)

Message Command:

Message #1067 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 24 Oct 93  12:01:42
From: Gregg Mercede
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: re: Toaster/PC

 RK> Hi Gregg!

 RK> On Saturday, October 16th '93 you wrote to Chris Baugh:

 GM>  CB> On (10 Oct 93) Gregg Mercede wrote to Chris Baugh...
 GM>
 GM>  GM> There are several pieces of hardware, and intensive video
 GM>  GM> boards availible to do this in the PC now.
 GM>
 GM>  CB> Have you studied the Amiga hardware reference
 GM>  CB> manuals?  Sure, many
 GM>  CB> of the individual features such as a graphics coprocessor are
 GM>  CB> available for isa/vesa machines.  However, the system as a whole
 GM>  CB> doesn't include such things as a blitter and
 GM>  CB> multiple dma channels
 GM>  CB> [...]
More? [Y/n/c]                GM> also developed and it is now shipping with OS/2 2.1, full motion 30
 GM> frames per second video with NO hardware necessary!!!!

 RK> Must we read all this non-Toaster chat here on this echo?  Ron Kramer
 RK> is the moderator here who refocused this Video echo to tips and info
 RK> to help the users of the Video Toaster.  As someone interested in the
 RK> Toaster, you are quite welcome here, Gregg, but please don't fill up
 RK> bandwidth with information that is available on other Fidonet echoes.
 RK> We all have come here to talk specifically about the Toaster and
 RK> things related to its use.

Well, actually I read the name of this echo as "Video", not "Video Toaster".
 It is true however that I got away from my original point.  Which was
really more of a question before being attacked.

I was just wondering why Toaster was not being designed for the PC.  And I
received a few replies of people saying things like the PC was not advanced
enough.  Meanwhile, not many really new much about the PC.

A lot of this snowballed into an argument, or more attacks on the PC.  And
how it is good only for handling text.

More? [Y/n/c]               It is good to have these opinions, it makes the echo maybe even more
interesting at times, but my original question was about the Toaster.

GM

--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: OS/2 Brings DOS sales to its knees! (1:141/270)

Message Command:

Message #1068 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 24 Oct 93  12:08:18
From: Gregg Mercede
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: Toaster/PC

 RK> PC`s. I`ve been into msdos since 1982 and sold,
 RK> serviced and programmed them professionally.  I moved
 RK> into Amigas in 89. (just for video I thought - YA RIGHT
 RK> I FOUND OUT)

Well, MS-DOS is very archaic.  None have really tried OS's like OS/2.  I
think it is smart to look out for these, cause they are elevating the PC.
IBM will make sure of that.  They got the money for R & D.


 RK> Sorry guy, take it from someone who was on your side of
 RK> the fence and got the Amiga experience.  My 6000.00
 RK> Compaq 386/20 don`t cut it (and Im sure not gonna go
 RK> 486) My 286/12 does a nice job running the bbs here...
 RK> Its capible of handling a BBS I guess.

More? [Y/n/c]               Well, a 486 will run about 60 times quicker than a 386/20.  And a 286/12,
<gg>

I think you are outdated with your PC equipment.  Not to mention with the
operating system you use.  The OS/2 operating system is incredible.  It
cannot be compared with DOS.

 RK> 486) My 286/12 does a nice job running the bbs here...
 RK> Its capible of handling a BBS I guess.

 RK> But we`ve strayed from the topic of interest.  VIDEO-
 RK> TOASTER  Lets get back at it. shall we-

I though the Echo Title was "Video"?




--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: OS/2 Brings DOS sales to its knees! (1:141/270)

Message Command:

Message #1069 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 28 Oct 93  23:08:02
From: Mark Weiss
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: re: LW on a PC? ALL PC owners

 MW> I can play back animations of network quality at 800x600 resolution

 RK> Sorry to burst your bubble, but network quality animations have a higher
 RK> horizontal resolution than just 800 pixels...

Oh? Just what is the "new" standard today? Not long ago, they were up to 600
TV lines.

Mark


--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: Treasure Island =HST/DS= 203-791-8532 (1:141/730)

Message Command:

Message #1070 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 29 Oct 93  10:18:02
From: Ron Kramer
  To: All
Subj: Vivid-24 & Lightwave

* Original Area: Forsale
* Original From: Stephen Bailey (1:228/13)
* Original To  : Patrick Beck (1:228/13)

I just read your article on the Vivid-24 board in a back issue of AMIGA
VIDEO/GRAPHICS magazine. Having become very interested in boosting the
rendering power of my Toaster station (especially since the announcement of
the Screamer) I wanted to ask you about your experience with this board from
DMI.
   You mention that an included utility called DMI-Render will allow
Lightwave objects/scenes to be loaded into the Vivid-24 environment for
rendering. You specify that it will draw and shade these objects, but will
it perform other tasks as Lightwave does, such as raytracing, shadow
mapping, etc?
   Also, I wondered if you own this board yourself? If so, do you use it
with Lightwave, and what kind of luck have you had? Though seemingly not as
More? [Y/n/c]               fast as the upcoming Screamer, this board appears to be a lower priced
alternative (i.e. $4,000 for 160 MIPS vs. $10,000 for 600 MIPS). Let me know
what you think.

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1071 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 29 Oct 93  10:29:54
From: Ron Kramer
  To: All
Subj: LightRave

Well rumor has reared its ugly head again... a user of my bbs has stated
that he has talked to a LightRave programmer (if thats want you wanna call
em)
and has told this person that LW 4.0 has new protection and they are already
working on cracking it.  And that `it will not be a problem`.  Sounds rather
fishy to me... but who knows.



--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1072 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 28 Oct 93  10:45:11
From: James Kewageshig
  To: Mike Nielsen
Subj: NewTek tech service--thum

MN>My board crapped out on me last week while I was in the process of
MN>renovating my system.  Called NT tech Monday morning.  Mailed the Toaster
to
MN>them UPS 2nd day air.  Got a replacement via Airborne Express Thursday.
No
MN>charge, no questions asked.  New board works perfectly.  Nuff said.

Jeez, I guess they *finally* have some competent people working in their
replacement shipping area...

(I'm allowed to be this cynical due to my '3-week-wait/We-Don't-Have-It/
Oh-Wait-Yes-We-Do' I went through with them...) ;)

James K.
---
 * DeLuxe* 1.25 #8086 * Head of Co@#$1 HELP!held captive.computer alive!H
More? [Y/n/c]               --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #1073 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 29 Oct 93  10:57:11
From: James Kewageshig
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: re: LW on a PC? ALL PC ow

RK>Hi Mark!

RK>On Tuesday, October 26th '93 you wrote to Moderator:

 MW> I can play back animations of network quality at 800x600 resolution

RK>Sorry to burst your bubble, but network quality animations have a higher
RK>horizontal resolution than just 800 pixels...

How do you figure?  Broadcast quality is around 375x525 (or however many
vertical lines we have here in NTSC land...) ;)

Unless your talking about anti-aliasing and/or super-sampling, which are
rendering options, and not really output options...

Approx:
More? [Y/n/c]               NTSC Broadcasts:  375x525
Laserdisk:        400x525 (but I think movies on disk don't use the full 400)
S-VHS:               "
VHS:              240x525

James K.
---
 * DeLuxe* 1.25 #8086 * Head of Co@#$1 HELP!held captive.computer alive!H
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #1074 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 28 Oct 93  22:34:11
From: J. Moore
  To: J Eric Chard
Subj: Re: Limited Region

JEC>        Also, once you get close, what's wrong with using ADPro to scale
JEC> it to the exact specification?

Okay, I was a little too sarcastic.  What's wrong with using a
time- and money-adding post-processor to do something they could have
easily put in as an easy-to-do (ie. productivity-oriented) feature?

Well, you probably wouldn't have phrased it that way.

 * Q-Blue 0.93 [NR]
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #1075 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 29 Oct 93  02:11:05
From: Tim Krego
  To: Steven Bailey
Subj: Anim Ouput (hi-end quality) f

If you are looking for better quality video for animations look at the DPS
PAR.  Sony also has a new lower cost Betacam SP format, the UVW series. The
UVW-1800 recorder is $8K-9K list and the player is around $5K-6K.


--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3
 * Origin: Amys' Place - Multiline - Toledo OH (1:234/22)

Message Command:

Message #1076 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 29 Oct 93  02:22:03
From: Tim Krego
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Y/C AND COMPONENT

SK> I was under the impression that once a signal goes to composite, any
SK> Y/C in  the chain becomes irrelevant, so that Toaster users have to
SK> lose ALL the  benefit of Y/C camcorders and decks when they use the
SK> Toaster.
SK>
SK> Am I wrong?

Yes, sort of.  The Y/C on your camcorder/VTR would only be of benefit if you
had a TBC with Y/C inputs.  The Toaster composite output is
indistinguishable from most SVHS/Hi8 formats.  Composite is still used quite
a bit.


--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3
 * Origin: Amys' Place - Multiline - Toledo OH (1:234/22)

Message Command:

Message #1077 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 29 Oct 93  02:25:44
From: Tim Krego
  To: Eric Fleischer
Subj: Re: Anim Ouput (hi-end q

EF>   A caveat on the BetaCam SP decks, though. When we were first looking
EF> into
EF> a component format setup, we originally looked at the Sony PVW series
EF> (and
EF> the equivalent BTS decks). We very specifically asked the Sony rep
EF> about
EF> single frame recording, and were told that Sony does not recommend the
EF> PVW
EF> series decks for single frame recording. The transport is not durable
EF> enough for that use." I can only assume that the new UVW series Beta
EF> decks,
EF> which are even cheaper, will be similarly unsuited.

A DPS PAR used to record to the UVW/PVM Betacam SP decks would make a good
system.  You get the higher quality of the PAR going into the BetaSP.  MII
is nice, and I would prefer it over BetaSP, but BetaSP is more prevelent in
More? [Y/n/c]               most areas.


--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3
 * Origin: Amys' Place - Multiline - Toledo OH (1:234/22)

Message Command:

Message #1078 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 29 Oct 93  02:29:35
From: Tim Krego
  To: Mark Woollard
Subj: SunRize Card & Toaster

MW> Has anyone with a Toaster setup been using the Sunrize audio card?
MW> I've been doing a lot of video stuff with my setup but now need to
MW> raise
MW> my sound editing capabilities. I'm especially interested in hearing
MW> how
MW> easy it is to synch the sound with video, especially when using
MW> Toaster
MW> transition effects.  I understandthat there's a Toaster compatibility
MW> option.  How well does it work?  Are there any compatibility issues
MW> with
MW> the Toaster 4000?

The Toaster doesn't use SMPTE so you would have to have decks that support
SMPTE if you want to sync audio to video.  The Sunrize Toaster compatibility
option is a software driver that allows the Sunrize card to load a bigger
sample when used with the Toaster since the Toaster halts the computer when
More? [Y/n/c]               it does certain transitions.  The software allows the audio to keep playing
for the few seconds the Toaster is busy.  The only problem you would have
using a Sunrize card in the 4000 is space requirements, there are only two
slots to put it in after you install a Toaster.


--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3
 * Origin: Amys' Place - [419-691-0279] - Toledo OH (1:234/22)

Message Command:

Message #1079 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 29 Oct 93  02:33:03
From: Tim Krego
  To: Hammed Malik
Subj: Morphing- LW & M+

HM> This new drive that you are taking about, is it the ST3650A?  A while
HM> back I was talking to a DPS tech support guy here in Toronto and he
HM> said
HM> that the new drive works but it won't allow animations longer than
HM> 2mins (though you can fill it up with 5mins worth.  You just can't
HM> have
HM> one anim longer than 2mins).  I will be speaking with him on tuesday
HM> to
HM> confirm this because I can purchase either one of the drives and would
HM> like to get the better one (obviously).
HM>
HM> Thanks in advance for any information.

The ST3650 can only play for about 2 minutes before it has a thermal
recalibration, that causes a micro second long delay that interupts the
smooth playback of the PAR.  They should have a couple new drives certified
More? [Y/n/c]               to work with the PAR soon, they will also be supporting the hookup of more
than one drive to the PAR by the end of the year.



--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3
 * Origin: Amys' Place - Multiline - Toledo OH (1:234/22)

Message Command:

Message #1080 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: Sat 30 Oct 93 20:00
From: Alan Chan
  To: All
Subj: A4000 RAM

Okay, I have a question that I need to get answered, and it kinda has
something to do with the Toaster, but just barely.. well, maybe not even..
I have 8 megs of RAM on my Supra card and 0 megs on my GVP 030 card, which
takes 60ns 72-pin SIMMS. Does anyone know if I can just take the 1 meg SIMMs
which were taken out of a stock A4000 and use them in the GVP? I keep
running short on RAM on my LW work and was wondering if this could be a
stopgap measure until I can get the moola to go buy a 4meg SIMM.. help!!



--- DLG Pro v0.999/DLGMail
 * Origin: Amiga Line BBS [phone] V32bis (1:147/2020)

Message Command:

Message #1081 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 31 Oct 93  09:47:44
From: Rich Koster
  To: James Kewageshig
Subj: re: 35MM

Hi James!

On Thursday, October 28th '93 you wrote to Terry Dailey:

 JK> TD> What do the people use that film DSV? Do they use a CI-5000 to
 JK> TD> transfer LW pics to 35mm motion picture film?
 JK>
 JK> I doubt that seaQuest would waste that much time/money/HD space to
 JK> first render the frames at say, 1200x800 (I've done this on my film
 JK> recorder) then shoot it onto film stock, then end up transfering it
 JK> back to video.

Well, seaQuest outputs the LightWave images to D2 where they use D2
switchers to combine it with the real-life images.  The edited show is
output to 35mm film and *then* transferred to composite video -- in
NTSC, PAL, SECAM, etc.  The reason they take the step to film is so that
More? [Y/n/c]               they are video resolution independant and don't have to use electronic
conversion to all the other non-NTSC video formats used in the world.

Plus, by having this 35mm master they are ready for any future high-
resolution format that might become popular in the future, like HDTV.

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #1082 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 31 Oct 93  09:56:06
From: Rich Koster
  To: James Kewageshig
Subj: re: LW on a PC? ALL PC ow

Hi James!

On Friday, October 29th '93 you wrote to me:

 JK> How do you figure?  Broadcast quality is around 375x525 (or however
 JK> many vertical lines we have here in NTSC land...) ;)

I think what's being confused here is what people perceive as the
horizontal resolution of VHS recorders or what the net result is of
what they receive after a video signal is transmitted and develops
ghosts, ringing, and other nasty video stuff that uncaring cable
companies introduce into a broadcast signal.

The video quality of what is edited with at professional edit suites
is much more than what you receive into your home TV set.

More? [Y/n/c]               Think about it:  If the resolution wasn't better in the edit process
but was as bad as what you yourself receive, then by the time the
video signal went through everything it does before getting to you
it would be *much* worse in everyone's homes as the net result (if
the starting quality was worse to begin with).

I'm not sure if I'm expressing myself well enough for you to understand
what I mean, but I haven't had enough coffee yet this morning!  :)

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #1083 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 31 Oct 93  14:59:08
From: Charles Bandla
  To: Nancy Kowal
Subj: Lightwave Pro

* In a message dated 23 Oct 93 :

NK>What do guys think of the new 'newsletter/tutorial' from AVID-NK>seems a
bit steep for 15 or so pages ($48 for 12 months IF you NK>subscribe to VTU-
$72 if not. I liked the first issue but....

When did you receive your copy of LightWave PRO?  The flyer I received from
Avid originally said it would be released in late August, but I haven't seen
any sign of mine yet.


--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1084 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 31 Oct 93  15:00:00
From: Charles Bandla
  To: All
Subj: Lightwave anim format

Can anyone tell me anything about the file format that
NewTek uses for it Lightwave anims.  I had heard that they
were Ham8 opcode 8 anims, but I haven't been able to get
one to load into either of my Ham8 / opcode 8 anim programs (View or
TrueBrilliance).


--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1085 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 31 Oct 93  20:41:38
From: Todd R.
  To: Zoltan Hunt
Subj: Re: VTU Video

 ZH> It was ment to have some stuff on SeaQuest, Todd Rungren (sp?) and B5.

Rundgren.



--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS (1:228/13)

Message Command:

Message #1086 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 31 Oct 93  17:37:38
From: Bill Evans
  To: Scott Pessoni
Subj: VTU Video

Re: VTU Video

>  ZH> Two issues back, Video Toaster User had a question
>  ZH> sheet that asked reader about the magazine (Aug/Sept 93-
>  ZH>  Beyond Jarassic Park)
>  ZH> Filling this out was ment to get you a free video in 6-8 weeks.
>  ZH> Has anybody who filled this out received anything yet?
> Sorry If this message is late... (Reading old messages! heheheheheh)
> But... Nope.. It's October 29 and nothing yet! :(
My dealer got a couple of them in, basically I wouldn't get all excited
waiting for it, Wesley Crusher (oops Wil Wheaton) narrates they basically do
a review of 2 3-chip cameras, talk a little to the head of seaquest stuff and
that's about it.  Not a real impressive video in my book, the camera review
stuff was terrible I thought, so I'm now eagerly awaiting (NOT) my copy in
the mail.
       -bill
More? [Y/n/c]
--- VFIDO 6.10.03
 * Origin: NASAU Beach CBIS (1:373/17)

Message Command:

Message #1087 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 31 Oct 93  17:37:39
From: Bill Evans
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Vivid-24 & Lightwave

Re: Vivid-24 & Lightwave

>    You mention that an included utility called DMI-Render will allow
Lightwav
> objects/scenes to be loaded into the Vivid-24 environment for rendering.
You
> specify that it will draw and shade these objects, but will it perform
other
> tasks as Lightwave does, such as raytracing, shadow mapping, etc?
DMI-Render doesn't do real complex interpretations of scenes, though its
likely it will be improved (though maybe not until REAL-3D is finished for
the
board
>    Also, I wondered if you own this board yourself? If so, do you use it
> Lightwave, and what kind of luck have you had? Though seemingly not as fast
> the upcoming Screamer, this board appears to be a lower priced alternative
More? [Y/n/c]               > (i.e. $4,000 for 160 MIPS vs. $10,000 for 600 MIPS). Let me know what you
> think.
Screamer/Vivid comparisons are hard to do at this point, but the Screamer
does
600 MIPS (Meaningless Instructions per Second) and the VIVID does 160 MFLOPS
(Meaningless Floating Point Operations Per Second).  Screamer claims 40times
4000 performance on Lightwave, Vivid has shown similar increases on fractals,
mandlebots and DKBtrace(or one of the other ones).  Vivid's current advantage
is that its cheaper, expandable and is on the Zorro-III bus (much faster then
Ethernet).  Screamer's advantage is that it has NewTekian software wizards
behind it.  So if you want a lightwave accelerator get a Screamer, otherwise
either Vivid or the new Warp Transputer system may fit your task.
      -bill

--- VFIDO 6.10.03
 * Origin: NASAU Beach CBIS (1:373/17)

Message Command:

Message #1088 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 31 Oct 93  07:08:25
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: Re: LightWave Morphing

  *In a message dated 29 Oct 93  06:22:28 Rich Koster writes:

RK> No, it would not be easy... but you guys should be careful when you
RK> say something is *impossible*!  ;-)

        Geez, mea culpa already.     ;-)

        Ok, it's possible if you're double jointed and can operate the
computerwhile standing on your head.

        Let's put it this way.  $100 bucks says they didn't use LWave.


*FSED91jSC 1.3d* SPEED, QUALITY, PRICE: pick any two.
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)
More? [Y/n/c]
Message Command:

Message #1089 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 31 Oct 93  07:44:03
From: J Eric Chard
  To: Scott Pessoni
Subj: Re: Anim Ouput (hi-end qualit

  *In a message dated 29 Oct 93  19:47:08 Scott Pessoni writes:

SP>  SB> I am interested in options for outputing Lightwave
SP>  SB> Animations for use in Film and Video. I currently use a
SP>  SB> Sony Hi-8 EVO-9650 Single Frame deck. The deck works
SP>  SB> wonderfully, but the somewhat low 44db S/N level leaves
SP>  SB> me wanting for more clarity. I get the feeling that my
SP>  SB> lovely framestores (752 X 480) are being cheated by the
SP>  SB> 400+ lines of resolution allowed by the Hi-8 format.
SP>  SB> So, my question to any of you hi-end post production people
SP> is--what are
SP>  SB> some options? I read that Ron Thornton of B5 fame used an
SP> Abekas Digital
SP>  SB> Disk recorder to master his frames, later bumping them
SP>  SB> to D1 video for cutting into the live action footage.

More? [Y/n/c]                       (respoding to original poster)

        If you are using Hi8, an Abekas would be ridiculous overkill.
Look into the PAR by DPS, does essentially the same thing.  $2800.


*FSED91jSC 1.3d* Dyslexics have more fnu
--- Star-Net v1.02a
 * Origin: Bermuda Triangle HST/DS 600megs 206-771-8420 (1:343/53.0)

Message Command:

Message #1090 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 29 Oct 93  06:32:36
From: Don Pope
  To: Sam Kanter
Subj: Re: VTU VIDEO

In a message of <26-Oct-93 02:51:24> Sam Kanter (1:2603/303) wrote:

 SK> I filled it out and received nothing but COUNTLESS junk mail for Lee
 SK> Stranahan training seminars. One was in HAWAII, no less!

   With a couple of other top-notch experts in addition to Lee.  I had just
attended one of Lee's seminars a couple of months earlier, so I couldn't
justify the expense for this one. :(

 SK> for $249 "all seminar attendees receive over 50 pages of
 SK> written course material and cool software!"

   Plus hours of personal instruction... I've owned a Toaster for a couple
of years and still learned a bunch.  I HIGHLY recommend you attend one if
you get the chance.  Trust me, you'll not regret it.

More? [Y/n/c]                SK> Give me a break!

   You're being given one.  Businesses spend thousands and thousands each
year sending employees to seminars that are worthless.... this one is nearly
free in comparison. :)  If you don't learn enough to get your money's worth,
it won't be Lee's fault.  He really will try to answer any question you have
- and if he can't answer it, he'll make phone calls during the breaks to try
to find the answer ( he did at the seminar I attended, anyway - in addition
to staying after the seminar was "officially" over to continue answering
questions ).
   I don't think you'll find that I'm alone in my evaluation of the seminar
- posts here from others who have attended seem to be "two thumbs up" as
well.  You're making a very big mistake to consider the Stranahan literature
as junk mail.

Amigaly,
.Don.

---
 * Origin: inSaNiTY- [HST/DS] (1:3815/101.2)

Message Command:

Message #1091 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 29 Oct 93  07:55:10
From: Don Pope
  To: Rob Ribar
Subj: Re: lightwave 3D

In a message of <26-Oct-93 12:00:18> Rob Ribar (17292:17276/1) wrote:

 RR>         Are any of these boards HST?


     Rob, I'm pretty sure all three of the ones I mentioned have at least
one HST line. I pulled the Amiga BBS List off of Internet, but the Amiga
Asylum BBS tagline says HST.

Amigaly,
.Don.

---
 * Origin: inSaNiTY- [HST/DS] (1:3815/101.2)

Message Command:

Message #1092 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: Sun 31 Oct 93 21:06
From: Jeff Dehaven
  To: Terry Dailey
Subj: Re: 35MM

 I am not sure what the people at DSV are using, though if I were to make an
educated guess, I would probably say that they are using the same thing that
Antigravity is selling- whether it is the actual unit that Antigrav sells or
their own modification, I do not know.  I am curious however, and I do have
an aquaintance that was recently hired on as a programmer on the DSV team,
If I can get in touch with him, then I will be sure to ask PLENTY of
questions about everything they are doing there (and see if I can get hired
on too! <GRIN> ... sorry, I am day dreaming ;>)

Anyhow, If I get some info, Ill put it up here.


--- DLG Pro v0.999/DLGMail
 * Origin: CYBERMIGA! Boulder, Colorado [phone] (1:104/121)

Message Command:

Message #1093 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: Sun 31 Oct 93 21:10
From: Jeff Dehaven
  To: Don Pope
Subj: Re: Humans in 3D

Thats interesting that it has taken so long for you to receive your objects-
We however ordered ours Fed Ex next day priority and received the objects
the next day after our order- perhaps it next day is not specified, then
they take their merry time...  About the child objects-  I feel that your
statement might be true- we registered about a month ago and have yet to
receive the child- on the other hand, none of us at work have needed a child
object as of yet, but that doesn't excuse long delivery times.

 Good luck in receiving your child object- lemme know when they send it to
you and maybe we can compare delivery times-  For reference, I am in Denver,
CO.

--- DLG Pro v0.999/DLGMail
 * Origin: CYBERMIGA! Boulder, Colorado [phone] (1:104/121)

Message Command:

Message #1094 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: Sun 31 Oct 93 21:17
From: Jeff Dehaven
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: LW on a PC? ALL PC owners

  I must apologize for my oversight ;>  What is the number of your board- I
would like to see the board that Toaster User has written about, especially
if it was raten #1!

 Also- just out of curiosity, where do the majority of your calls come in
from?

 One thing that I think that would be a bonus for NewTek is to somehow
incorporate telecommunications as a support medium for their Toaster users
who would not otherwise be introduced to such things-  It would be great to
have people that are also into video to speak on these forums and share the
information that could benefit us all- after all, if they are to merge the
Video and Computer platform, it should be a fully complete merge and contain
the best of both worlds-  Telecommunicating is one of the best means of
support that I experience, and I do not think I could be half as productive
without such a great medium,  Others might be pleasantly surprised at the
More? [Y/n/c]               versatility of Net support!


--- DLG Pro v0.999/DLGMail
 * Origin: CYBERMIGA! Boulder, Colorado [phone] (1:104/121)

Message Command:

Message #1095 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: Sun 31 Oct 93 21:24
From: Jeff Dehaven
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: Humans in 3D

 If you are referring to CycleMuscles for Imagine, yes- I have seen them,
though my personal opinion is that they are good "gag" objects, They look
very funny (as in humerous), but they are built well- and someone out there
is going to find a use for them somehow,  maybe a flipped out music video or
something.  They are in no way anotomicaly (sp?) correct, but they were not
meant to be (at leas I hope they werent! ;> )


--- DLG Pro v0.999/DLGMail
 * Origin: CYBERMIGA! Boulder, Colorado [phone] (1:104/121)

Message Command:

Message #1096 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 01 Nov 93  01:15:12
From: Mark Weiss
  To: Bill Evans
Subj: Reality Check II

 BE> performance hog OS ever written, on anything less then
 BE> a fast 486 with lots of
 BE> memory, it's unusable, and its also not terrible stable.

Sure I would like to see my OS written in Assembler, but I'm not the one to
do it. Would be nice though.

 BE> display workstation resolutio
> graphics. I'm enjoying 1280x1024x24-bit color on a
> 21" NEC 6FG monitor right
> now. I can play back animations of network quality at
 BE> 800x600 resolution and
> still download a file in the background, watching
> both activities side-by-sid
> on the same monitor. The animation playback is 30fps
 BE> and looks better than th
More? [Y/n/c]               > stuff I saw last year coming off a UNIX workstation.
> We're using RenderMan
> shaders and the results are photorealistic. Amiga is
 BE> improving, but I can
> always spot an Amiga animation or an Amiga DVE every time I see one.
 BE> After reading this bit, I have to ask, what computer do
 BE> you own, the only PC c
 BE> ard I know that does 1280x1024 in 24 bit lists for 5K
 BE> or so, if you mean 8 bit
 BE> (256 colors) then my Picasso is currently running that
 BE> mode right now, and a l

My display is 1280x1024x24-bits, full-time. It cannot run in any other mode.
I have 4megs of video ram on the card, which is heavily parallel-processed
(3 separate video DACs for R,G,B). You'll have to take my word for it, since
most PCs, as you say, do run only 8 bit color and sloooowly at that.

 BE> arge chunk of the other RTG boards will do it as well.
 BE> You aren't watching re
 BE> al picture resolutions at 800x600 in 24 bit, your
 BE> hardware is tricking you aga

More? [Y/n/c]               812x632 to be exact.

 BE> in, and where is the source for this data, your
 BE> harddrive?? again not enough b
 BE> andwidth, if it's an MPEG file it's not really 800x600,
 BE> and the other boards p

See my prior message/reply.

 BE> lay 30 frames not fields again not at 800x600, and
 BE> again not Network Quality.
 BE> You talk about Renderman shaders??? I'm sorry but if
 BE> you think you can spot Am

 BE> iga animation, I assure you anyone can spot non
 BE> raytraced stuff (ie your shade

I've noticed the weird shimmerings and flickers at the edges of objects in
Babylon-5. Later, I was told that was done on Toasters, networked together.
I pattedmyself on the back for having a well-trained eye. <g>


More? [Y/n/c]                BE> r).  You need to learn a little more about you're own
 BE> equipment before you com
 BE> e in here and post off topic messages inaccurate
 BE> messages about your system.
 BE>       -bill


Excuse me, but I assemble workstations for a living now. I custom built my
own system. I used to own a SPARC 2 GX until I realized that the PC was
where it was really happening. I sold my Mac Quadra last summer. I've no
need for either of them at this point.

Since I now have come to realize the dimeanor of folks on this echo, I don't
see any further need to frequent it. I'll ask my SysOp to change the ID tag
to something other than VIDEO. Perhaps AMIGA_ROID would be more accurate.

Mark


--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: Treasure Island =HST/DS= 203-791-8532 (1:141/730)

Message Command:

Message #1097 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 02 Nov 93  08:33:00
From: John Donlevie
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: Lightwave without a toast

  *In a message dated 27 Oct 93  10:33:04 Ron Kramer writes:

>  CB> One user, one copy, one use at a time of each program they
> bought,
>  CB> just that there is more than one machine involved.  It's plain
> and
>  CB> simple, nothing illegal, immoral or fattening about it.
> I know, but once installed and capible of rendering on two machines
> who`s gonna limit themselves to that type of operation when a 300
> frame anim needs to be completed and time is of the essence. :)
> I know I couldn`t restain myself from rendering with both machines.
> --- Maximus 2.00
>  * Origin: Moderator -official LW/Toaster BBS 616-791-2109 HST/DS
> (1:228/13)
What If your "TOASTER NOT RESPONDING" in the middle of that time
essence?.....
More? [Y/n/c]
--- MEBBSNet 0.132
 * Origin: Phila. Amiga Users' Group BBS 215-551-6113/1120 (1:273/912.0)

Message Command:

Message #1098 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 02 Nov 93  08:37:31
From: John Donlevie
  To: All
Subj: PAR and Montage

Anyone using PAR or Montage, I am looking to purchase both but would
like to read a REAL review or two to get the scoop. Is Par really
Bcast quality does Montage sequence well? Does PAR not Burp in an
animation? Look forward to some useful reading.... Hope the answers
come from abusers not sellers!!!

--- MEBBSNet 0.132
 * Origin: Phila. Amiga Users' Group BBS 215-551-6113/1120 (1:273/912.0)

Message Command:

Message #1099 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 2)
Date: 01 Nov 93  17:09:22
From: Rich Koster
  To: J Eric Chard
Subj: re: LightWave Morphing

Hi J!

On Sunday, October 31st '93 you wrote to me:

 JEC>         Geez, mea culpa already.     ;-)

;-)

 JEC>         Ok, it's possible if you're double jointed and can operate the
 JEC> computerwhile standing on your head.
 JEC>
 JEC>         Let's put it this way.  $100 bucks says they didn't use LWave.

I never said they did.  So I won't make that bet.

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
More? [Y/n/c]                * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #1100 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 01 Nov 93  17:49:28
From: Rich Koster
  To: Mark Weiss
Subj: re: 24 bit anims

Hi Mark!

On Monday, November 1st '93 you wrote to Bill Evans:

 MW> The BBS I'm calling from lists it as the VIDEO echo, although I will
 MW> be pulling the plug from this echo here

Bye!

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #1101 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: Sun 31 Oct 93 11:30
From: Nancy Kowall
  To: Zoltan Hunt
Subj: Re: VTU Video

 ZH> It was ment to have some stuff on SeaQuest, Todd Rungren (sp?) and
 ZH> B5.
 ZH> Tell me if this is the video you got.
>Zoltan>

No, I'm sorry- I thought you meant the little one from Stranahan "5 Things,
etc" I don't think I even knew about the other or have forgotten.


--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Mike's Video House - Glendale, CA 818-240-1593 (1:102/852)

Message Command:

Message #1102 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: Sun 31 Oct 93 11:47
From: Nancy Kowall
  To: All
Subj: Still available

 Toaster 3.0

    Toaster board (2.0 board, tested, never used- bought for my son)
    Complete 3.0 manual
    3.0 installation software

 (sells for $1895 mailorder) Asking $1300 OBO




(Will sell 3.0 Software separately for $500 and Toaster 2.0 and board for
$800 if some prefer to do it that way.)



More? [Y/n/c]               Dr. Nancy Kowall
818-799-5273
Pasadena, CA


--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Mike's Video House - Glendale, CA 818-240-1593 (1:102/852)

Message Command:

Message #1103 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 31 Oct 93  00:04:11
From: J. Moore
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: Video blaster

RK> People into video already have expensive cameras and decks.

When I wrote my Unix book for beginners some publishers said that it
wasn't needed because anyone using Unix already had extensive computer
experience.  They were wrong.  The same applies to your statement -- and
what of people contemplating getting INTO video; I think they deserve
adequate information from us to help make their decisions.

RK> The toaster can do anything in the demo with any camera and any deck

Well, you know, I think Newtek's demo tape is a little higher quality
than you'd get with "any camera and any deck".  You don't agree?

 * Q-Blue 0.93 [NR]
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)
More? [Y/n/c]
Message Command:

Message #1104 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 31 Oct 93  10:54:11
From: J. Moore
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: Re: re: WARLOCK/TOASTER

->       Thanks for backing me up, Paulo.  You'ld think these guys would
-> have a clue.

PDA> I'm in the Seattle area, too. Maybe that's the secret   ;-)

Must be the proximity to Canada, eh?

 * Q-Blue 0.93 [NR]
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'c'
 * Origin: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario  (1:229/15)

Message Command:

Message #1105 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 31 Oct 93  05:51:35
From: Don Pope
  To: Bill Beogelein
Subj: Re: Bill Beogelein's Toaster

In a message of <27-Oct-93 4:55:35> Bill Beogelein (1:2410/207) wrote:

 BB> A2000 + Old Toaster Board + Toaster v3.0 software....
 BB> Sometimes when I create a box in the CG, it doesn't have the little
 BB> re-sizing gadget on it, and can't be dragged-resized.

    Hi Bill.... either I'm blessed or you're cursed. :)  Once again, I don't
seem to have that problem - and I use the CG (and boxes) daily.

  BB> Most times it works fine, though.

    I wound up selling my old board and am now using the T4000 in my A2000,
so our configuration isn't quite the same anymore.  However..... I hate to
keep harping on it, but since it works fine most of the time for you, and
since I don't seem to have it happen at all, you really should get the 2
Megs of Chip RAM installed.  This, in particular, would seem to be related
More? [Y/n/c]               to that.  You can't put this upgrade off forever. :) :) :)

Amigaly,
.Don.



---
 * Origin: inSaNiTY- [HST/DS] (1:3815/101.2)

Message Command:

Message #1106 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date:  1 Nov 93   0:21:59
From: PETER Greci
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: Humans in 3D

I have the Cycle Muscles Objects, I have the Imagine versions but if the
Lightwave version is the Same they are QUITE good. They are setup to do a
Walk Cycle as well as a Running Cycle and then there are just the Models
themselves. I guess the LW versions include some type of SCENE files to keep
the Walking and running motions and you'd use LOAD from Scene. BTW The Cycle
Muscles will be starring in a Animation by me called "The Adventures of Joe
PUMPT and BIFF BOD"

---
 * Origin: The Trade-N-Post (AMIGA) NYC [6Gigs
4Lines]718-847-4439(1:2603/207)

Message Command:

Message #1107 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date:  1 Nov 93   0:23:29
From: PETER Greci
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: "LightWave PRO"

I also like Lightwave PRO. John Gross told me on Compuserve that future
issues MAY include Floppies with the Scenes/Objects on them

---
 * Origin: The Trade-N-Post (AMIGA) NYC [6Gigs
4Lines]718-847-4439(1:2603/207)

Message Command:

Message #1108 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 02 Nov 93  06:07:58
From: Michael Butler
  To: Tim Krego
Subj: Toaster and the big C=

TK>$100 rebate?  $100?  Oh, its the principle of it I assume. A class-action
  >suit over $100?  A lawyer wouldn't touch that without a $5000 retainer.
Ca
  >you tell me what problems you have?

No, a class-action suit couldn't be over any one person's $100 since
that would be a contradiction. It would include everyone at once
("class action") who didn't get a $100 rebate which could be quite a
lot of change (possibly in the millions, assuming more than 10,000
people didn't get this rebate.)

 * 1st 1.11 #2055 *
--- Renegade v07-17 Beta
 * Origin: Goldfinger's --  Houston, TX  --  [phone] (1:106/604)

Message Command:

Message #1109 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: Mon  1 Nov 93 16:26
From: Nancy Kowall
  To: Dennis Wright
Subj: Re: Wanted Toaster 3.0 Softwa

 DW> I am looking for a used copy of the Toaster 3.0 Software. I would be
 DW> willing
 DW> to pay up to $500 + Shipping.  Please give me a call at (915)673-
 DW> 1911.

If you are really interested- call me at 818-799-5273- I have the software
and manual for $500 + shipping.

     Nancy

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Mike's Video House - Glendale, CA 818-240-1593 (1:102/852)

Message Command:

Message #1110 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 02 Nov 93  23:37:10
From: Rich Koster
  To: Paulo De Andrade
Subj: re: LightWave Morphing

Hi Paulo!

On Sunday, October 31st '93 you wrote to me:

 PDA> -> Here's a tip for you, J!  You know how some of the morphing programs
 PDA> -> do it, with a mesh grid that you move the points on to match
 PDA> -> important points of two images?
 PDA> ->
 PDA> -> With LightWave it would be possible to morph between two highly
 PDA> -> segmented flat 3D objects which have images projection-mapped onto
 PDA> -> them -- and if these flat mesh objects had been altered in
 PDA> -> LightWave's Modeller then it would be possible to morph 2D images
 PDA> -> even in LightWave!!!!
 PDA> ->
 PDA> -> No, it would not be easy... but you guys should be careful when you
 PDA> -> say something is *impossible*!  ;-)
More? [Y/n/c]                PDA>
 PDA> Wow! Do you insist...
 PDA>
 PDA> No offense, but your solution is what I call dumb!

I *did* say it would not be easy...  I admit that it would not be a
smart thing to do when there are software packages that do this much
easier -- but I was making the point that it is not *impossible*!

 PDA> There are at least 3 packages out there that do 2D morphing on the
 PDA> Amiga/Toaster. They are Morph Plus, ImageMaster and Image FX

I am aware of that.

 PDA> (Cinemorph). They are designed to do 2D morphing efortlessly and don't
 PDA> cost an arm and a leg. Any real professional would use these tools
 PDA> instead of trying to pull it off with Lightwave

I never suggested anyone would actually prefer to do it the way I suggested,
just that it was not something that was *impossible*, see?

 PDA> (wich would not give the same result no matter what you tried).
More? [Y/n/c]
Sounds like you are saying "impossible" again...

 PDA> It is clear that you have never done 2D morphing. If you did, you'd
 PDA> know better than to write that nonsense. You can't achieve the same
 PDA> results with Lightwave, no matter how good it is. You can't do that
 PDA> with Softimage, a $35,000 3D program for SGI workstations. You need a
 PDA> specialized 2D morphing program.
 PDA>
 PDA> Morphing is not the same as dissolving! Surface mrorphing in Lightwave
 PDA> (or any other 3D program) is just dissolving, not true 2D morphing.

Read again what I'm talking about.  Not just dissolving.  Using two mesh
grids with the images projection-mapped onto them, then morphing the
mesh grids around (so that each image's mesh actually moves around) *while*
the grids are also morphing from one to another.

You would get the same effect -- and it would *not* just be dissolving.

 PDA> Lightwave is a wonderful tool, but it is definitely not designed to do
 PDA> 2D morphing!

More? [Y/n/c]               I didn't *say* it was "designed" to do it -- just that it was not
*IMPOSSIBLE*!!!!  :)

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #1111 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 02 Nov 93  23:40:58
From: Rich Koster
  To: Don Pope
Subj: re: Toaster 3.0/2.0 Page Turn

Hi Don!

On Sunday, October 31st '93 you wrote to me:

 DP> if he sees it, great - if not, you can file it away in your FYI
 DP> file. Just got my TRexx Professional upgrade (2.1.1), and it was
 DP> exactly what I needed.  I'm finally able to load in the old 2.0
 DP> effects and use them with 3.0 and customize project banks...

Thanks for all the information on this, Don.  I will look into TRexx Pro.
It sounds like a winner!

 DP> P.S. - to avoid sending another message re: your message to JLammers..
 DP> I agree completely! Thanks, Ron, for attempting to get this TOASTER
 DP> echo back on track....

More? [Y/n/c]               Yes, indeed!

--- April V0.994fRegBeta+
 * Origin: Rich's MandeVilla by the Sea, Mandeville, LA (1:390/5.10)

Message Command:

Message #1112 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 01 Nov 93  14:57:19
From: Sam Kanter
  To: Tim Krego
Subj: Re: SAY IT!

>This is off-topic but I think B.C. is more dangerous the R.L.  BC is going
to

Y. R.U. using initials for the names of these people? Y.R.U. continuing this
off-topic discussion?

Rush Limbaugh is a ______! (Fill in a word and end this topic forever!)
--- TBBS v2.1/NM
 * Origin: Staten Island Sys-Link/TBBS/TIMS [phone] 4-Lines
(1:2603/3000)

Message Command:

Message #1113 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date:  1 Nov 93  17:12:31
From: PETER Greci
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: Re: Lightwave PRO

I subscribed too. I like it even tho I only get to use a Toaster
Occassionally.

---
 * Origin: The Trade-N-Post (AMIGA) NYC [6Gigs
4Lines]718-847-4439(1:2603/207)

Message Command:

Message #1114 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 30 Oct 93  00:17:33
From: Chris Baugh
  To: Echo Moderator
Subj: RULES

Ron, would you please consider the following revision to the rules:

 EM> source feed about gaining access to them.  The Video-toaster topic
 EM> DOES NOT include discussion of PC`s or generic VIDEO talk.  Unless the
 EM> video talk includes the use of this other equipment with the toaster.

How about adding:

* OR * unless discussion of features available with other systems
leads directly to discussion of how Toaster users can accomplish
similar tasks.

This would open up discussion of, for example, 3dStudio features *as
they apply* to helping Lightwave users think about their animations
in new ways that are more creative and profitable, or of hardware
for other platforms that includes TBC's *as it applies* to helping
More? [Y/n/c]               Toaster users understand and use TBC's.


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Message Command:

Message #1115 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 30 Oct 93  00:20:07
From: Chris Baugh
  To: Ron Kramer
Subj: Re: LW on a PC? ALL PC owners

On (27 Oct 93) Ron Kramer wrote to Jeff Dehaven...

 RK> You must not read VIDEO_TOASTER_USER magazine! - My bbs was written up
 RK> as the best 3d/toaster bbs around, Studio amiga followed as 2nd.

Congratulations!!!!!

--- PPoint 1.64
 * Origin: from the Pacific Northwest! (1:105/290.5)

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Message #1116 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 01 Nov 93  16:47:08
From: Chris Westfall
  To: Bill Evans
Subj: Apologies

In a message of 30 Oct 93 Bill Evans wrote to All:

 BE> My Apologies to all on the echo, I had meant to send the previous two
 BE> messages (which are slightly off topic) via netmail, but botched it and
 BE> now they travel the net, the board packed them as I logged off.  Ron,
 BE> I'll go sit in the penalty box now.
 BE>     -bill

 BE> --- VFIDO 6.10.03
 BE>  * Origin: NASAU Beach CBIS (1:373/17)

   Not at all Bill. I hate to read this "my computer has this and that and
you guys can only dream about it" crap.  I'm glad someone knowledgeable
responded to it and put him in his place. He, after all, didn't send his
message via netmail.  What if people actually believe that stuff. More harm
than good, don't you think?  I thank you for your public reply.
More? [Y/n/c]
Chris Westfall

--- Spot 1.2a Unreg.
 * Origin: Chris' BBS Nanaimo, B.C. (1:351/230.0)

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Message #1117 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 02 Nov 93  19:45:00
From: Terry Dailey
  To: Jeff Dehaven
Subj: Re: 35MM

Hi Jeff...

JD> an educated guess, I would probably say that they are using the same
JD> thing that Antigravity is selling- whether it is the actual unit that
JD> Antigrav sells or their own modification, I do not know.  I am curious
JD> however, and I do have an aquaintance that was recently hired on as a
JD> programmer on the DSV team, If I can get in touch with him, then I will
JD> be sure to ask PLENTY of questions about everything they are doing there
JD> (and see if I can get hired on too! <GRIN> ...  sorry, I am day dreaming
JD> Anyhow, If I get some info, Ill put it up here.

Yes, do so....  It would be very interesting to find out what they use.


                                     Terry D.

More? [Y/n/c]               ...                  [e-mail]
 * Q-Blue 0.91 BETA *


--- WM v3.10/93-0089
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Message #1118 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 4)
Date: 31 Oct 93  15:07:23
From: Tim Krego
  To: Peter Greci
Subj: Re: Humans in 3D

PG> The Dynamic Motion Module has NOT been released yet. Brent Malnack has
PG> uploaded some Sample Scenes on Compuserve tho.

Darn, I just cancelled my CI$ account.  Are they LW scenes or sample pics?


--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3
 * Origin: Amys' Place - [419-691-0279] - Toledo OH (1:234/22)

Message Command:

Message #1119 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 02 Nov 93  11:14:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Steve Gresser
Subj: Switcher Problems ...

-> Our problem is that there is a major h-phase and color-phase shift
-> from the inputs into the Toaster.  Our color-bars from our CCUs look
-> fine on the Toaster's program and preview monitors, but not on our
-> SEGs preview and program monitors (colors are WAY off and shifted to
-> the left).  NewTek says that A) that's the same thing that we should
-> have been getting with the Toaster 2.0 (as the outputs are apparantly
-> functionally identical) and that B) it is due to a 400ns delay due to
-> the downstream switcher.  We are supposed to be getting (I guess)
-> some delay lines or a Toaster "Breadbox" (?) to fix this problem, but
-> I was wondering why we would be getting this problem with the 4000
-> when we didn't get it with the 2.0?  Is there something else we're
-> doing wrong?  We've run AutoHue about a dozen times with a dozen
-> different configurations, but as is apparant from the Toaster's own
-> outputs, that's not the problem.

Yes, you should add a delay line.
More? [Y/n/c]               You can also try (if possible for your setup) to connect the Toaster to
the swicher output, instead of the input.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #1120 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 02 Nov 93  11:28:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Rich Koster
Subj: re: LW on a PC? ALL PC ow

-> Anti-aliasing a horizontal resolution of 525 lines is no match to
-> having more pixels in the first place (which can *also* be
-> anti-aliased!), and which *is* possible on NTSC television.

It is possible to have as many pixels as you want. But the problem is
that NTSC has a limited resolution. When you take your signal to NTSC,
all you'll get is the NTSC limit. If that limit wasn't so imposing, we
would not need HDTV.

If you have a way of displaying multiple resolutions to NTSC, you can
make a simple test. Render the same scene at several resolutions,
ranging all the way to X000 x X000. You'll see that NTSC limits the
resolution so that anything higher than 525 will look the same.
Lightwave is a good example. 2.0 did no anti-aliasing but rendered the
image a twice the resolution. 3.0 renders at the normal resolution but
does anti-aliasing. The image coming out of 3.0 looks cleaner.
More? [Y/n/c]
The NTSC resolution limitation is what drives computer users crazy (when
they've never gone to video before). They see their images on the
computer screens and it looks awesome, full of details. But when they go
to NTSC, most of the details are gone.

The NTSC limitation is actually very helpful to us, Toaster users. It is
a great equalizer, making Lightwave animations look as good as
animations rendered using SGI workstations. If is wasn't for that,
Newtek would have redesign the Toaster for much higher resolution
output.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #1121 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 02 Nov 93  11:44:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Tim Krego
Subj: Re: Anim Ouput (hi-end q

-> A DPS PAR used to record to the UVW/PVM Betacam SP decks would make a
-> good system.  You get the higher quality of the PAR going into the
-> BetaSP.  MII is nice, and I would prefer it over BetaSP, but BetaSP
-> is more prevelent in most areas.

You are right. Beta SP is much more common. It is a big issue if you are
editing for other people. But if you are just doing animations or your
own productions, format availability is not an issue anymore. You never
take your master directly to a tv station. You always make a dub. And
most stations still prefer a one inch dub over Beta SP. So, you can
safely have one inch dubs made out of MII or any other format.

My production company, Digital Reality, does everything on MII. We
receive nothing but very positive reactions from our clients, all of
them having used Beta SP before. All of them, with no exception, like
MII picture better. But, again, we are not in the business to edit for
More? [Y/n/c]               other people (unless the come to us with MII masters), so we don't have
a problem with that. As a matter of fact, a few clients who have
material originated on Beta SP had no problem making an MII dub for
editing. But if we were in business as a post-production facility for
rent, I'd buy Beta SP. Or at least a few Beta SP machines to complement
the MII equipment.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
 * Origin: *Alki Express BBS - Multi-Node system (1:343/57)

Message Command:

Message #1122 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 02 Nov 93  11:49:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: Peter Greci
Subj: Re: SunRize Card & Toaste

-> Paulo, what software are you using with yer Sunrize Card for Synching
-> to Video? The software that comes with the Card or other Software? I
-> remember Dr.T's had a prg specifically for this type of work called
-> the Hitman.
-> Thanx for the info. BTW are you using the 12 bit card or the 16 bit
-> card?

I am using the software that comes with the card (Studio 16). It locks
flawlessly to my decks SMPTE time code. I am very impressed, because it
never failed to lock, not even once.

I am using the 16 bit card. And I can't work without it anymore!
Although MII has 4 audio tracks, I prefer to do all the audio editing on
the Sunrize. That saves the masters from several edits. Then I mix
everything down to tape in one single pass. The Sunrize is a very nice
board and I consider it a real bargain for what it does.
More? [Y/n/c]               --- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
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Message Command:

Message #1123 "TOASTER_VIDEO" (Read: 3)
Date: 02 Nov 93  12:32:11
From: Paulo De Andrade
  To: J Eric Chard
Subj: Re: KINGS NEW ROBE

-> *In a message dated 29 Oct 93  13:20:31 Paulo Andrade writes: RR>
-> software with
-> RR> PA> lots of bugs. The Lightwave you get is not the same Seaquest
-> is RR> PA> done with (they have tons of custom code NewTek wrote for
-> them).
->       As a LW beta tester, I'd like to say that, while yes, at any
-> given
-> moment SeaQuest is going to have LWave features we do not, everything
-> added to Lightwave for Amblin' eventually winds up in the release
-> versions of Lightwave.         ^^^^^^^^^^

Eventually is the right word! It took 18 months for us to get the
features that were on Babylon 5's version.
As for Seaquest, they already have a totally different version of
Lightwave than we do. They said that themselves. And they are very happy
with the fact that NewTek is always writing custom code for them - for
More? [Y/n/c]               free!  No other company in the industry would do this for them, which is
great for them, and will *eventually* also be for us. But I feel a big
need for NewTek to upgrade Lightwave more frequently, as the features
take too long to reach us. I know a lot of people who abandonned the
Toaster for other systems just because they could not afford to wait for
3.0. That is very sad, and it is no one's fault but NewTek's.

->       Also, even while testing I found very few bugs in LW.  "The
-> grass
-> is always greener" syndrome applies very much in computers.  I'm sure
-> 3DS has its share of bugs.
->       Not that I wouldn't mind having it, but think of the OS it runs
-> under.  Gack.

I am very umbiased when it gets to computers and software. As a writer
for a few magazines, I have to be (and my network tv background also
helped me get this way). Whenever I argue in favor of a computer or
software, I do so because of the true features, not for sentimental
reasons or personal preferences. There is on type of computer that I'd
never buy (I won't mention names) but which I've had to use several
times to review software. Although I dislike the computer, I found some
of the software to be awesome and  with features not available
More? [Y/n/c]               elsewhere. The funny thing is that the operating system becomes
irrelevant while you are running the software (before and after is
another story, though). And there is no question about it - the Amiga
has the best operating system of all personal computers. But, again,
what really makes a computer great is the software that is available for
it.

3D Studio has it's share of bugs, of course, just like Lightwave. But I
think NewTek should learn a few lessons from Autodesk. The first one is
free updates (not upgrades). Autodesk sends free bug fixes, often
introducing a feature or two. Release II of 3D Studio had two free
updates. This way you don't have to wait untill the next major release
to have the bugs fixed (and they even pay shipping). Another thing that
3D Studio have that I think would make Lightwave a lot better is an open
architecture. The IPAS allows you to add plug-in modules to 3D Studio
that can add major new features without the user having to wait for a
major upgrade. There are IPAS routines for collision detection, image
processing, particle systems, object manipulation, fractal plants
generation, etc. There is even a glove interface for interactive
"puppetry", just like you see on SGI workstations. So you can add the
features you need, when you need them. Autodesk also encourages
third-party developers by selling the IPAS development kit to anyone who
More? [Y/n/c]               is interested. And it costs $250 only. If NewTek did something like this
to Lightwave, we would have a much more versatile system, don't you
agree?

The last lesson NewTek should learn from Autodesk is accessability. Gary
Yost, the head of the Yost Group, responsible for 3D Studio, answers
questions directly on a daily basis. And he takes lots of notes. Most of
the features on 3DS release 3 came from regular users requests.
Autodesk's Siggraph party was a wonderfull opportunity to talk to anyone
at Autodesk. Even the CEO was available to anyone. This accessability
adds a feeling of intimacy and trust in the company.
NewTek, on the other hand, is a very hard to reach company. While
writing magazine reviews, I've made several calls that were never
returned. And I identified myself both as an end-user and as a writer.
The feling I get out of NewTek, unfortunately, is that of "we don't care
about you" and "we make our own decisions - you'd better like them".

I sincerely hope NewTek changes. It would make the lives of thousands of
Toaster users, including myself, a lot easier.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff176/x]
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